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Unrelated, never understood why people say "free as in beer", beer is the opposite of free! I think it'd be more accurate to say free as in water or free as in

Unrelated, never understood why people say "free as in beer", beer is the opposite of free! I think it'd be more accurate to say free as in water or free as in air.

sublinear 2y ago
Free beer has a cost, but not for you. It's an incentive for you to socialize. That's more accurate. On the opposite extreme there's "free as in vacation" such as high pressure sales tactics for a timeshare. :p
apgwoz 2y ago
The point of free as in beer is that it’s not free. So, if someone is giving it to you, it’s gratis. As opposed to “free, as in freedom” to use the beer not just for drinking, but to redistribute, inspect, add ingredients to it, understand how it was made, etc.
- sublinear 2y ago
  > As opposed to “free, as in freedom” to use the beer not just for drinking, but to redistribute, inspect, add ingredients to it, understand how it was made, etc. That's not what freedom means!
deleted 2y ago
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sonofhans 2y ago
The full phrase is, “Free as in speech, not as in beer.” It applies to software, especially 20+ years ago when FOSS software was coming into public view and people needed to understand what it was. Some people would say “open source software,” but this struck others as a half-measure. The visibility of the source wasn’t the point, they would say. What matters is the freedom to do what you want with the software — https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html If someone says “this beer is free” it means you’re charged nothing for it. If someone says “this software is free” it means (in this context) that you have an inalienable right to use it as you please — like you have an inalienable right to speak freely.
- apgwoz 2y ago
  > Free as in speech When did they change this? I distinctly remember this previously being “free as in freedom, not as in beer.” It’s always had to be further disambiguated by using “libre” and “gratis” — not sure “as in free speech” is better. Update: welp, I must be misremembering. Wayback machine shows at least since 2010… so it’s either a reallly old framing or, I’m misremembering, completely!

Unrelated, never understood why people say "free as in beer", beer is the opposite of free! I think it'd be more accurate to say free as in water or free as in air.

sublinear 2y ago

Free beer has a cost, but not for you. It's an incentive for you to socialize. That's more accurate. On the opposite extreme there's "free as in vacation" such as high pressure sales tactics for a timeshare. :p

apgwoz 2y ago

The point of free as in beer is that it’s not free. So, if someone is giving it to you, it’s gratis. As opposed to “free, as in freedom” to use the beer not just for drinking, but to redistribute, inspect, add ingredients to it, understand how it was made, etc.

sublinear 2y ago
> As opposed to “free, as in freedom” to use the beer not just for drinking, but to redistribute, inspect, add ingredients to it, understand how it was made, etc. That's not what freedom means!

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

sonofhans 2y ago

The full phrase is, “Free as in speech, not as in beer.” It applies to software, especially 20+ years ago when FOSS software was coming into public view and people needed to understand what it was. Some people would say “open source software,” but this struck others as a half-measure. The visibility of the source wasn’t the point, they would say. What matters is the freedom to do what you want with the software — https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html If someone says “this beer is free” it means you’re charged nothing for it. If someone says “this software is free” it means (in this context) that you have an inalienable right to use it as you please — like you have an inalienable right to speak freely.

apgwoz 2y ago
> Free as in speech When did they change this? I distinctly remember this previously being “free as in freedom, not as in beer.” It’s always had to be further disambiguated by using “libre” and “gratis” — not sure “as in free speech” is better. Update: welp, I must be misremembering. Wayback machine shows at least since 2010… so it’s either a reallly old framing or, I’m misremembering, completely!