5 ms·

SF parking officers don't want to give out more tickets, object to new plan

26 points by mikhael 3y ago

SnorkelTan 3y ago
“Over the last eight years, traffic citations are down by 97% in San Francisco” I doubt traffic violations have decreased by this percentage. In San Jose it feels similar. Police just seem to be doing less.
- thebiteitstings 3y ago
  Follow the incentives. As a police officer: Why risk your life to arrest someone who will immediately be released, all in the name of a citizenry that hates you (ACAB)?
  - abracadaniel 3y ago
    Because that’s the job. If the police want to be respected again, they need to earn it by proving they aren’t all what everyone believes them to be. Responding to criticism by ceasing to do the job is just earning more hatred.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > If the police want to be respected again, they need to earn it by proving they aren’t all what everyone believes them to be And if they won’t—and continue to collect a paycheque—they should be fired for cause. We did it in 1857 in New York, when the corrupt Municipal police were replaced by the Metropolitans, consolidating “the police in New York, Brooklyn, Staten Island, and Westchester County (which then included The Bronx), under a Governor of New York-appointed board of commissioners” [1]. Perhaps Sacramento can repeat the feat. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_New_York_City_Police_Department https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_New_York_City...
newshackr 3y ago
It seems like there was a change in police behavior recently where there is now an entitlement to keep the job but not do what it entails.
- phendrenad2 3y ago
  Issuing parking citations is usually a low-risk task and if it's suddenly become one where you're likely to be assaulted then the job itself has changed. It's reasonable to complain about this.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
  Upon closer inspection, it appears the ticketing authority is the SFMTA, not the police.
- TheCoelacanth 3y ago
  100%. The country's entire police force is throwing a collective tantrum that they aren't allowed to kill with complete impunity.
  - danielscrubs 3y ago
    What would get you to risk your life as a cop? What is the yearly salary that would guarantee that you switch jobs?
- icegreentea2 3y ago
  Despite being called "parking cops", parking officers in most cities aren't like... cops. The employees complaining here aren't in the police union, they don't have police powers, and they don't have police pay or training.
nanomonkey 3y ago
In Oakland, we have empty cars with weeds growing under them from sitting in the same spot for over a year. When I've asked the city, they respond that their lots are full, or that they assumed someone was living in the car, despite any evidence of the later. I remember a time when being parked in a street sweeping area, or having missing registration was immediately caught with a hefty fine. I'm curious why the city no longer feels the need for this revenue, or that laws no longer need to be enforced. It's weird for me to miss law enforcement, but there is definitely a threshold where not enforcing the laws feels more arbitrary. On a side note, if you mark a car as abandoned in SeeClickFix, people will show up and start dismantling the car searching for parts to hock before the city shows up. Interesting times.
- SaberTail 3y ago
  San Jose has this same problem with abandoned vehicles. They will only do something if they can be classified as "blight". In practice that means the vehicle has to be so extensively damaged as to be inoperable. When I last looked into it, it was because they had grant money to clean up blight, but no budget for cleaning up abandoned vehicles otherwise. The towing and storage cost more than what they can usually recoup by fining the owner or by selling them for scrap. This has resulted in things like my entire neighborhood being taken over by shady car dealerships using the streets for overflow that they can't fit on their lots. And so actual people end up finding other places to park, like on the sidewalk, or right in the middle of dead-end streets. I do see those getting ticketed occasionally, at least. Meanwhile the unregistered dealer inventory with no plates that are otherwise legally parked don't suffer any consequences.
- jerlam 3y ago
  I heard that SeeClickFix loophole has been fixed: https://old.reddit.com/r/oakland/comments/1aq2rwt/fyi_abandoned_vehicle_reports_in_seeclickfix_are/ https://old.reddit.com/r/oakland/comments/1aq2rwt/fyi_abando...
anticensor 3y ago
That website is broken. Does not accept "no" as an answer to the cookie consent.
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> At Thursday’s rally, Mishan Schexnayder, a parking officer with SFMTA, told CBS News that she was assaulted after giving out a parking ticket two years ago. Schexnayder said after she put a citation under someone’s wiper, he followed her and punched her window, and glass from the window cut her eye. Cascading lawlessness. That person should have not only had their license revoked, they should be in jail. Instead “SFMTA is pressing charges but the case is still pending.” New York fired en masse and replaced its police in 1857, when the corrupt Municipal police were replaced by the Metropolitans, consolidating “the police in New York, Brooklyn, Staten Island, and Westchester County (which then included The Bronx), under a Governor of New York-appointed board of commissioners” [1]. Perhaps Sacramento can repeat the feat. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_New_York_City_Police_Department https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_New_York_City...
- infamouscow 3y ago
  I don't really understand this. The only thing stopping tens of thousands of genuine good upstanding citizens from permanently ending most of SFs' crime is the undeniable fact the SF police would be taken to task in arresting those good upstanding citizens for completely ridiculous and utter nonsense reasons like "murder." Until the voters of SF realize what I'm describing isn't a crime, this will continue. That, or all the good people will be eradicated by criminals.
- psyants 3y ago
  Crime rates have trended down decades. “Cascading lawlessness” is melodramatic moral panic
more_corn 3y ago
SF parking enforcement is bullshit. It’s about revenue not order and safety. Everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves.

26 points by mikhael 3y ago

“Over the last eight years, traffic citations are down by 97% in San Francisco” I doubt traffic violations have decreased by this percentage. In San Jose it feels similar. Police just seem to be doing less.

thebiteitstings 3y ago
Follow the incentives. As a police officer: Why risk your life to arrest someone who will immediately be released, all in the name of a citizenry that hates you (ACAB)?
- abracadaniel 3y ago
  Because that’s the job. If the police want to be respected again, they need to earn it by proving they aren’t all what everyone believes them to be. Responding to criticism by ceasing to do the job is just earning more hatred.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > If the police want to be respected again, they need to earn it by proving they aren’t all what everyone believes them to be And if they won’t—and continue to collect a paycheque—they should be fired for cause. We did it in 1857 in New York, when the corrupt Municipal police were replaced by the Metropolitans, consolidating “the police in New York, Brooklyn, Staten Island, and Westchester County (which then included The Bronx), under a Governor of New York-appointed board of commissioners” [1]. Perhaps Sacramento can repeat the feat. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_New_York_City_Police_Department https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_New_York_City...

newshackr 3y ago

It seems like there was a change in police behavior recently where there is now an entitlement to keep the job but not do what it entails.

phendrenad2 3y ago
Issuing parking citations is usually a low-risk task and if it's suddenly become one where you're likely to be assaulted then the job itself has changed. It's reasonable to complain about this.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
Upon closer inspection, it appears the ticketing authority is the SFMTA, not the police.
TheCoelacanth 3y ago
100%. The country's entire police force is throwing a collective tantrum that they aren't allowed to kill with complete impunity.
- danielscrubs 3y ago
  What would get you to risk your life as a cop? What is the yearly salary that would guarantee that you switch jobs?
icegreentea2 3y ago
Despite being called "parking cops", parking officers in most cities aren't like... cops. The employees complaining here aren't in the police union, they don't have police powers, and they don't have police pay or training.

nanomonkey 3y ago

In Oakland, we have empty cars with weeds growing under them from sitting in the same spot for over a year. When I've asked the city, they respond that their lots are full, or that they assumed someone was living in the car, despite any evidence of the later. I remember a time when being parked in a street sweeping area, or having missing registration was immediately caught with a hefty fine. I'm curious why the city no longer feels the need for this revenue, or that laws no longer need to be enforced. It's weird for me to miss law enforcement, but there is definitely a threshold where not enforcing the laws feels more arbitrary. On a side note, if you mark a car as abandoned in SeeClickFix, people will show up and start dismantling the car searching for parts to hock before the city shows up. Interesting times.

SaberTail 3y ago
San Jose has this same problem with abandoned vehicles. They will only do something if they can be classified as "blight". In practice that means the vehicle has to be so extensively damaged as to be inoperable. When I last looked into it, it was because they had grant money to clean up blight, but no budget for cleaning up abandoned vehicles otherwise. The towing and storage cost more than what they can usually recoup by fining the owner or by selling them for scrap. This has resulted in things like my entire neighborhood being taken over by shady car dealerships using the streets for overflow that they can't fit on their lots. And so actual people end up finding other places to park, like on the sidewalk, or right in the middle of dead-end streets. I do see those getting ticketed occasionally, at least. Meanwhile the unregistered dealer inventory with no plates that are otherwise legally parked don't suffer any consequences.
jerlam 3y ago
I heard that SeeClickFix loophole has been fixed: https://old.reddit.com/r/oakland/comments/1aq2rwt/fyi_abandoned_vehicle_reports_in_seeclickfix_are/ https://old.reddit.com/r/oakland/comments/1aq2rwt/fyi_abando...

anticensor 3y ago

That website is broken. Does not accept "no" as an answer to the cookie consent.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> At Thursday’s rally, Mishan Schexnayder, a parking officer with SFMTA, told CBS News that she was assaulted after giving out a parking ticket two years ago. Schexnayder said after she put a citation under someone’s wiper, he followed her and punched her window, and glass from the window cut her eye. Cascading lawlessness. That person should have not only had their license revoked, they should be in jail. Instead “SFMTA is pressing charges but the case is still pending.” New York fired en masse and replaced its police in 1857, when the corrupt Municipal police were replaced by the Metropolitans, consolidating “the police in New York, Brooklyn, Staten Island, and Westchester County (which then included The Bronx), under a Governor of New York-appointed board of commissioners” [1]. Perhaps Sacramento can repeat the feat. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_New_York_City_Police_Department https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_New_York_City...

infamouscow 3y ago
I don't really understand this. The only thing stopping tens of thousands of genuine good upstanding citizens from permanently ending most of SFs' crime is the undeniable fact the SF police would be taken to task in arresting those good upstanding citizens for completely ridiculous and utter nonsense reasons like "murder." Until the voters of SF realize what I'm describing isn't a crime, this will continue. That, or all the good people will be eradicated by criminals.
psyants 3y ago
Crime rates have trended down decades. “Cascading lawlessness” is melodramatic moral panic

more_corn 3y ago

SF parking enforcement is bullshit. It’s about revenue not order and safety. Everyone involved should be ashamed of themselves.