5 ms·

> The fact that your device can become a complete brick, because of an issue in their completely hands-off account management system, smells like a class action

> The fact that your device can become a complete brick, because of an issue in their completely hands-off account management system, smells like a class action suit This is HN frontpage. It's on a big "Mac" website. The damage is done. Many are going to write nonsense like: "Apple is still a $2 trillion company, so this obviously works for them" to which I'll respond with a simple question: Did it not work for Apple before these SNAFUs? Does it work better for Apple now, after fuck ups like that? It's not normal behavior and they are losing customers over this. We had an Apple "moment" in the family: around the 2012'ish MacBook Air era. Two at home and they worked fine, for about ten years. Then the battery issues, the keyboard issues, the trackpad issues. Eventually these MacBook Airs died a painful death. I'm on Linux since the nineties (and, yup, I can get into my system with Apple or Microsoft forcing an online ID down my throat) but the Macs were convenient for the wife. So we bought a MacBook Air M1. After 13 months or so the screen died alone, overnight: was working fine before closing the lid, was dead in the morning. There are threads with dozens of pages on that subject. That's when I switched the wife to Ubuntu. Ubuntu, Linux Mint: she doesn't care. Heck, I probably could have her use Debian or Devuan (Debian without systemd). Apple is done for us. It's over. We'll never ever buy a Mac again and I'll never ever recommend a Mac to anyone. And I'm far from the only one thinking that way. The damage is done. Rationalize as much as you want, invoke AAPL's market cap as much as you want, and enjoy being locked out of of your devices without any recourse.

blegr 2y ago
Everyone has a brand they're never buying again because of a few problems they had in the past. For every new brand they _are_ still buying, there are 10000 other people who are never buying _that_ one again because of a few problems they had in the past. The only difference I've seen between Apple and my previous laptop brands is that their support techs are useful.
- sottol 2y ago
  And unlike, say, Samsung Ultrabooks or even Microsoft Surfaces, Macs last a really long time. My kids are using my 2011 MacBook Air and 2009 iMac and they still work, even the battery still kinda hangs in. They've had a few rough years 2016-2019 with the butterfly keyboards but I don't know many current manufacturers with products as solid long term.
  - prmoustache 2y ago
    In my experience laptops from the competition are as durable when you pick up the professionnal line instead of the general consumers one. That will be Lenovo thinkpads, Dell latitude, HP elitebook, etc.
    - blegr 2y ago
      I'll admit the support for my Dell was pretty good. They sent someone on-site to fix a known defect in their product line.
    - ornornor 2y ago
      Lenovo has been tarnishing the think pad brand for several years now, pushing plastic junk that also has the thinkpad branding. It’s not enough to stick to thinkpad anymore, which thinkpad matters. Ditto HP. Their machines are… not great to operate on (from a maintenance perspective), their hardware maintenance manuals are much lower quality than they used to be… Only dell latitude hasn’t disappointed me yet, and I fix laptops as a hobby so I’ve worked on quite a few 2014-2019 machines.
      - Fatnino 2y ago
        Is framework a reasonable port in this storm? I haven't done any deep research into my next laptop yet. My ThinkPad x220 is still going strong but it is getting long of tooth.
        ornornor 2y ago
        > framework Can’t tell you, they refuse to ship or honor warranties to the country I live in at the moment.
        prmoustache 2y ago
        I would say parts for any thinkpad model are easier to find than framework ones. And it applies worldwide.
    - 2y ago
EasyMark 2y ago
As a counterpoint, I have 4 macs notebooks, 1 dating back to 2011 and they all still work, well the 2011 has to stay plugged in because the battery is basically useless at this point but it makes a not too bad NAS with linux running on it.
jncfhnb 2y ago
The prose here insisting the damage is done comes off as clueless when the apparent scale of the damage is trivially, if not undetectably, small.
- yoyopa 2y ago
  you don't say... a guy saying "the wife" and talking about linux isn't clued in?
pmarreck 2y ago
Linux fan but hard pass on this. Apple's ecosystem integration across their devices (I have Apple Watch, an M1, an iPhone 15 Pro Max, a couple Apple TV's etc.) is unparalleled. And the iPhone camera is excellent for documenting my rapidly-growing, almost 3 year old kid. Also, Livephotos kick ass. Every single Android phone I've used is annoying AF and I hate having to fix issues with them when I'm at my in-laws' house (her dad insists on them for... some irrational reason). Of course, I do sync my entire photo library with both Google (preserves the Livephotos) and Amazon (does not preserve livephotos), because I once lost an entire photo library due to a fuckup combined with an Apple bug. And I use non-Apple services for music and video. Maybe just don't put all your eggs in one basket to the extent you can.
- talldayo 2y ago
  Sounds like the same shtick I heard from Windows 8 apologists in the past. "Yes, yes, Microsoft is a ghoulish company; but look at how my laptop connects to my Xbox!" Apple's whole premium marketing shtick feels gone. Not only has the halo-effect worn off now that everyone owns an iPhone, but they're portioning up their own operating system to endless service integration and nonsense software offerings. Who the hell is paying for Apple Arcade? What about Apple Music Voice? Does anyone still pay for Apple Fitness+ without having forgot to unsubscribe? The whole thing reeks of Microsoft trying to market Groove Music and Onedrive to an audience of confused senior citizens and barely-literate pre-teen gamers. Their hardware revenue is threatened, their software revenue is headed towards the toilet, and their latest product category is a non-starter. If you aren't preparing to see the worst of what Apple is capable of, I advise you get ready (and perhaps an alternative smartphone you feel comfortable using).
  - pmarreck 2y ago
    I can’t hear you over the 140 photos of my son I am airdropping to my sister at full resolution and way faster than they would be made available to her in any other fashion But again, I am a Linux fan (NixOS actually), despite it sucking ass in the user department
    - 2y ago

blegr 2y ago

Everyone has a brand they're never buying again because of a few problems they had in the past. For every new brand they _are_ still buying, there are 10000 other people who are never buying _that_ one again because of a few problems they had in the past. The only difference I've seen between Apple and my previous laptop brands is that their support techs are useful.

sottol 2y ago
And unlike, say, Samsung Ultrabooks or even Microsoft Surfaces, Macs last a really long time. My kids are using my 2011 MacBook Air and 2009 iMac and they still work, even the battery still kinda hangs in. They've had a few rough years 2016-2019 with the butterfly keyboards but I don't know many current manufacturers with products as solid long term.
- prmoustache 2y ago
  In my experience laptops from the competition are as durable when you pick up the professionnal line instead of the general consumers one. That will be Lenovo thinkpads, Dell latitude, HP elitebook, etc.
  - blegr 2y ago
    I'll admit the support for my Dell was pretty good. They sent someone on-site to fix a known defect in their product line.
  - ornornor 2y ago
    Lenovo has been tarnishing the think pad brand for several years now, pushing plastic junk that also has the thinkpad branding. It’s not enough to stick to thinkpad anymore, which thinkpad matters. Ditto HP. Their machines are… not great to operate on (from a maintenance perspective), their hardware maintenance manuals are much lower quality than they used to be… Only dell latitude hasn’t disappointed me yet, and I fix laptops as a hobby so I’ve worked on quite a few 2014-2019 machines.
    - Fatnino 2y ago
      Is framework a reasonable port in this storm? I haven't done any deep research into my next laptop yet. My ThinkPad x220 is still going strong but it is getting long of tooth.
      - ornornor 2y ago
        > framework Can’t tell you, they refuse to ship or honor warranties to the country I live in at the moment.
      - prmoustache 2y ago
        I would say parts for any thinkpad model are easier to find than framework ones. And it applies worldwide.
  - 2y ago

EasyMark 2y ago

As a counterpoint, I have 4 macs notebooks, 1 dating back to 2011 and they all still work, well the 2011 has to stay plugged in because the battery is basically useless at this point but it makes a not too bad NAS with linux running on it.

jncfhnb 2y ago

The prose here insisting the damage is done comes off as clueless when the apparent scale of the damage is trivially, if not undetectably, small.

yoyopa 2y ago
you don't say... a guy saying "the wife" and talking about linux isn't clued in?

pmarreck 2y ago

Linux fan but hard pass on this. Apple's ecosystem integration across their devices (I have Apple Watch, an M1, an iPhone 15 Pro Max, a couple Apple TV's etc.) is unparalleled. And the iPhone camera is excellent for documenting my rapidly-growing, almost 3 year old kid. Also, Livephotos kick ass. Every single Android phone I've used is annoying AF and I hate having to fix issues with them when I'm at my in-laws' house (her dad insists on them for... some irrational reason). Of course, I do sync my entire photo library with both Google (preserves the Livephotos) and Amazon (does not preserve livephotos), because I once lost an entire photo library due to a fuckup combined with an Apple bug. And I use non-Apple services for music and video. Maybe just don't put all your eggs in one basket to the extent you can.

talldayo 2y ago
Sounds like the same shtick I heard from Windows 8 apologists in the past. "Yes, yes, Microsoft is a ghoulish company; but look at how my laptop connects to my Xbox!" Apple's whole premium marketing shtick feels gone. Not only has the halo-effect worn off now that everyone owns an iPhone, but they're portioning up their own operating system to endless service integration and nonsense software offerings. Who the hell is paying for Apple Arcade? What about Apple Music Voice? Does anyone still pay for Apple Fitness+ without having forgot to unsubscribe? The whole thing reeks of Microsoft trying to market Groove Music and Onedrive to an audience of confused senior citizens and barely-literate pre-teen gamers. Their hardware revenue is threatened, their software revenue is headed towards the toilet, and their latest product category is a non-starter. If you aren't preparing to see the worst of what Apple is capable of, I advise you get ready (and perhaps an alternative smartphone you feel comfortable using).
- pmarreck 2y ago
  I can’t hear you over the 140 photos of my son I am airdropping to my sister at full resolution and way faster than they would be made available to her in any other fashion But again, I am a Linux fan (NixOS actually), despite it sucking ass in the user department
  - 2y ago