4 ms·

The better question is why keep using X11, if XWayland works just fine.

yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
XWayland works just fine for applications; accessibility/automation tools and the like are a different story. (Ex. Want to write a script that finds a specific window and sends it keypresses? You're going to use X. Want to watch which window is focused to implement per-application keyboard layouts? X. Actually, want to set the keyboard layout dynamically at all on arbitrary window managers? Somehow Wayland doesn't do that. Once I almost started using a Wayland compositor, until I discovered that it didn't actually hook up the wlroots functions for setting keyboard layout; in X setxkbmap works everywhere.)
- ac130kz 2y ago
  One can run an XWayland container transparently. Broadcasting keypresses is forbidden due to security reasons, nobody forbids patching it in as an extension. Setting keyboard layout dynamically is as easy as calling swaymsg with the required parameters, if a particular window is required instead, there's a protocol for that in hyprland. It all depends whether a particular window manager does it or not. Finally, I get that accessibility isn't best with Wayland, but it was not ideal with X11 either.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
    > One can run an XWayland container transparently. That still only helps for applications (unless you mean just run a whole nested X session, in which case sure but that's not really using wayland). > Broadcasting keypresses is forbidden due to security reasons, nobody forbids patching it in as an extension. Nobody's writing that extension, either; as a user, X does what I want and Wayland doesn't and I'm not in a position to change that. > Setting keyboard layout dynamically is as easy as calling swaymsg with the required parameters, That appears to be just for sway? Or at least (from testing I just did) not all wlroots compositors support it. > if a particular window is required instead, there's a protocol for that in hyprland. It all depends whether a particular window manager does it or not. Exactly. In X, I could use whatever wm I wanted and all the same tools just kept working. In wayland, if I want to do anything interesting I appear to be stuck with sway or maybe hyprland. > Finally, I get that accessibility isn't best with Wayland, but it was not ideal with X11 either. Oh sure; X is a huge pile of hacks and ugly code, but it's a working pile of hacks and ugly code, and quite flexible at that, which is better than Wayland's elegant, well designed brokenness.
jbaber 2y ago
Do I get to run my exotic window managers via XWayland?
- ac130kz 2y ago
  There's XWayland rootfull mode, it will probably work just fine.
  - donio 2y ago
    With the huge limitation of not being able to manage the windows of Wayland clients. This tool is an excellent solution for exactly that.

XWayland works just fine for applications; accessibility/automation tools and the like are a different story. (Ex. Want to write a script that finds a specific window and sends it keypresses? You're going to use X. Want to watch which window is focused to implement per-application keyboard layouts? X. Actually, want to set the keyboard layout dynamically at all on arbitrary window managers? Somehow Wayland doesn't do that. Once I almost started using a Wayland compositor, until I discovered that it didn't actually hook up the wlroots functions for setting keyboard layout; in X setxkbmap works everywhere.)

ac130kz 2y ago
One can run an XWayland container transparently. Broadcasting keypresses is forbidden due to security reasons, nobody forbids patching it in as an extension. Setting keyboard layout dynamically is as easy as calling swaymsg with the required parameters, if a particular window is required instead, there's a protocol for that in hyprland. It all depends whether a particular window manager does it or not. Finally, I get that accessibility isn't best with Wayland, but it was not ideal with X11 either.
- yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
  > One can run an XWayland container transparently. That still only helps for applications (unless you mean just run a whole nested X session, in which case sure but that's not really using wayland). > Broadcasting keypresses is forbidden due to security reasons, nobody forbids patching it in as an extension. Nobody's writing that extension, either; as a user, X does what I want and Wayland doesn't and I'm not in a position to change that. > Setting keyboard layout dynamically is as easy as calling swaymsg with the required parameters, That appears to be just for sway? Or at least (from testing I just did) not all wlroots compositors support it. > if a particular window is required instead, there's a protocol for that in hyprland. It all depends whether a particular window manager does it or not. Exactly. In X, I could use whatever wm I wanted and all the same tools just kept working. In wayland, if I want to do anything interesting I appear to be stuck with sway or maybe hyprland. > Finally, I get that accessibility isn't best with Wayland, but it was not ideal with X11 either. Oh sure; X is a huge pile of hacks and ugly code, but it's a working pile of hacks and ugly code, and quite flexible at that, which is better than Wayland's elegant, well designed brokenness.

jbaber 2y ago

Do I get to run my exotic window managers via XWayland?

ac130kz 2y ago
There's XWayland rootfull mode, it will probably work just fine.
- donio 2y ago
  With the huge limitation of not being able to manage the windows of Wayland clients. This tool is an excellent solution for exactly that.