3 ms·

To be fair, we do this for a lot of other stuff as well. For instance, driving over the speed limit does not harm anyone per se, it's only when this leads to a

To be fair, we do this for a lot of other stuff as well. For instance, driving over the speed limit does not harm anyone per se, it's only when this leads to a traffic accident that harm is caused. You could just as well say: let's not have speed limits, let's only criminalize harming people in an accident, and then it's everyone's responsibility to drive at a responsible speed (and maybe in case of an accident, you would need to prove in a court that you drove (ir)responsibly and who was at fault). But we know this doesn't work in practice.

nucleardog 2y ago
We don’t criminalize production or possession of a car capable of exceeding the speed limit. The penalty for exceeding the speed limit is basically so minor as to be an administrative rather than criminal action in most cases. And that penalty only applies in public spaces (no speed limit on a drag strip). If we were to apply a similar model to drug use, production and sales would be legal, possession would be legal, use in private spaces would be legal, and we’d fine (not jail) people for being high in public spaces or high risk situations. Which is almost exactly what we do with alcohol. And aligns fairly well with a lot of other suggestions people have made around taking production and supply out of the hands of criminals.
- baq 2y ago
  Driving a car doesn’t make you an irrational car driving addict who can’t function without driving and will do basically anything to drive more because not driving hurts so bad and driving feels so good.
  - DoreenMichele 2y ago
    People on r/fuckcars might not agree with you.
    - alephnullshabba 2y ago
      I wasn't aware the leading experts came from a subreddit comprised entirely of children and recent GED graduates
      - chownie 2y ago
        We don't? Then why do we enter the comments?
  - otherme123 2y ago
    There are only a handful of drugs that turns you into that king of zombie. Mainly opiates that ilegalization itself made so powerful. Before being ilegal, the most common opiate was opium. It has about the same strength as codeine, about 1/10 of morphine. Some people took it daily for decades, and they were fully functional, not zombies. Only after ilegalization we see people taking fentanil. Because it's easier to smuggle 10,000 doses of fentanil (1 gram) than 20 doses of opium (2 gram). The same happened with coca leaves vs cocaine: were coca leaves are legal, only a few use cocaine. And some people chew coca leaves all their lifes without too much problem. Certainly less than an alcoholic.
otherme123 2y ago
Alcohol is legal. But it's ilegal under some circumstances (driving). Or it's not tolerated on some places (work). There are a number of low risk drugs, like LSD, that are very ilegal. In fact, they were made ilegal on false premises, like "they led to suicides" or "you'll stare at the sun". Often people make a big bag of drugs, from LSD, shrooms and marihuana, to heroin and fentanil, put them in a bag and stamp "ilegal because some of them are very bad" on it. Sorry, what? Ban the worse of them, and leave the less harmful out. I'm personally for full legalization, but I get that some people want to ilegalize at least the worse opioids. To go back to your speed example: yes, speeding is bad. Yet we put a limit reasonably high that allows you to use the car. We didn't outlaw car usage altogether! We know there are traffic related deaths and injuries every year, and still we are allowed to drive: we study the problems, we try to fix it, new regulations are in place... We try to get a balance between the risk and the benefits. But the current discourse with drugs is "going in a car at 5mph in the highway is very, very, very harmful". Except alcohol: that "car" can go at full speed.

nucleardog 2y ago

We don’t criminalize production or possession of a car capable of exceeding the speed limit. The penalty for exceeding the speed limit is basically so minor as to be an administrative rather than criminal action in most cases. And that penalty only applies in public spaces (no speed limit on a drag strip). If we were to apply a similar model to drug use, production and sales would be legal, possession would be legal, use in private spaces would be legal, and we’d fine (not jail) people for being high in public spaces or high risk situations. Which is almost exactly what we do with alcohol. And aligns fairly well with a lot of other suggestions people have made around taking production and supply out of the hands of criminals.

baq 2y ago
Driving a car doesn’t make you an irrational car driving addict who can’t function without driving and will do basically anything to drive more because not driving hurts so bad and driving feels so good.
- DoreenMichele 2y ago
  People on r/fuckcars might not agree with you.
  - alephnullshabba 2y ago
    I wasn't aware the leading experts came from a subreddit comprised entirely of children and recent GED graduates
    - chownie 2y ago
      We don't? Then why do we enter the comments?
- otherme123 2y ago
  There are only a handful of drugs that turns you into that king of zombie. Mainly opiates that ilegalization itself made so powerful. Before being ilegal, the most common opiate was opium. It has about the same strength as codeine, about 1/10 of morphine. Some people took it daily for decades, and they were fully functional, not zombies. Only after ilegalization we see people taking fentanil. Because it's easier to smuggle 10,000 doses of fentanil (1 gram) than 20 doses of opium (2 gram). The same happened with coca leaves vs cocaine: were coca leaves are legal, only a few use cocaine. And some people chew coca leaves all their lifes without too much problem. Certainly less than an alcoholic.

otherme123 2y ago

Alcohol is legal. But it's ilegal under some circumstances (driving). Or it's not tolerated on some places (work). There are a number of low risk drugs, like LSD, that are very ilegal. In fact, they were made ilegal on false premises, like "they led to suicides" or "you'll stare at the sun". Often people make a big bag of drugs, from LSD, shrooms and marihuana, to heroin and fentanil, put them in a bag and stamp "ilegal because some of them are very bad" on it. Sorry, what? Ban the worse of them, and leave the less harmful out. I'm personally for full legalization, but I get that some people want to ilegalize at least the worse opioids. To go back to your speed example: yes, speeding is bad. Yet we put a limit reasonably high that allows you to use the car. We didn't outlaw car usage altogether! We know there are traffic related deaths and injuries every year, and still we are allowed to drive: we study the problems, we try to fix it, new regulations are in place... We try to get a balance between the risk and the benefits. But the current discourse with drugs is "going in a car at 5mph in the highway is very, very, very harmful". Except alcohol: that "car" can go at full speed.