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> The death penalty is reserved for very few circumstances - smuggling large quantities or dealing in large quantities. Last year, Singapore executed a woman f

> The death penalty is reserved for very few circumstances - smuggling large quantities or dealing in large quantities. Last year, Singapore executed a woman for possessing 31 grams of heroin. [0] Who considers 31 grams of anything a large quantity? Well, in Singapore, trafficking over 30 grams of heroin is considered a "large quantity" with a mandatory death penalty – and all the prosecution has to prove is possession, once that is proved, trafficking is legally presumed. This is the amounts, possession of which gets you mandatory death penalty in Singapore: 15 grams of heroin, 30 grams of cocaine, 250 grams of meth, or 500 grams of cannabis. [1] Those amounts aren't large, they are trivial. They are kinds of quantities that small time drug dealers would possess, but large scale drug traffickers would scoff at. As of August last year, there were 50 people on death row in Singapore, and only 3 of those had been convicted of murder, the other 47 had been convicted of non-violent drug crimes. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/28/singapore-woman-execute-death-penalty-saridewi-djamani-executed https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/28/singapore-woma... [1] https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/singapore-announces-plans-to-execute-more-death-sentenced-prisoners-convicted-of-non-violent-drug-offenses https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/singapore-announces-plans-...

refurb 3y ago
> Those amounts aren't large, they are trivial. Those are quantities no user would reasonably have in their possession. Even small time dealers could skirt under those numbers. Note these are counted as the "pure" amount, not like the US where they include the cuts. So 15 grams of heroin would be >1,000 doses. 250 g of meth would be 10,000 doses. And sure most of Singapore's death row are drug offenses, but Singapore has almost no crime otherwise, so comparing it to murder (<10 per year) isn't a good comparison. Singapore is very harsh for drug smuggling, but drug use or small time dealing? They do treatment and short jail sentences.
- skissane 3y ago
  > Even small time dealers could skirt under those numbers. Just because a small-time dealer could skirt under those numbers, doesn't make someone who exceeds them not a small-time dealer. Particularly consider there is a mandatory death penalty for possession of 500 grams of cannabis – and that says nothing in terms of "purity", low THC or high THC it is all the same. According to [0] a "pound" of weed in California costs between US$200 and US$1400, depending on quality and potency. US marijuana dealers define "pound" as exactly 448 grams (as opposed to the modern Anglo-American avordpouis pound of 453.59237 grams). So, given that, the price of 500 grams works out to between (lets round up a little) US$225 and US$1565. You think under US$2000 of marijuana is "too much" for a "small time" dealer to possess? No. You'd need to possess a lot more than that to count as a large scale dealer, or even a medium scale one. Yet Singapore has a mandatory death penalty for it. Singapore has a mandatory death penalty for small-scale marijuana dealing. [0] https://www.vibebycalifornia.com/the-cost-of-cannabis-how-much-is-a-pound-of-weed-in-californias-recreational-market/ https://www.vibebycalifornia.com/the-cost-of-cannabis-how-mu...
  - refurb 3y ago
    I don't disagree that the marijuana death penalty is excessive. But I wouldn't compare the Singapore drug market to the US one. They are nowhere close to the same. Costs are way higher and users are lower in number. You don't see seizures of tons of cocaine like you do in the US, it's likely hundreds of grams. If they set "dealer quantities" of those drugs to be the same as the US, nobody would be a dealer.
    - skissane 3y ago
      > Costs are way higher and users are lower in number According to a 2023 Straits Times article [0], 3g of cannabis in Singapore costs S$50, which is about US$37. So a death penalty quantity of marijuana would cost about S$8300, which is about US$6100. (Probably less than that actually because, as with everything, the larger the purchase the lower the per-unit price.) Still nowhere near being "large scale". [0] https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/buying-cannabis-online-was-like-ordering-takeout-pizza-says-former-abuser https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/buying-cannabis-onlin...
      - refurb 3y ago
        Well, I don't think Singapore sets the death penalty based on dollar value of drugs. And you ignored my comment on quantity. Nobody is dealing in multiple kilograms of marijuana in Singapore. But that's super common in the US. The government looked at what quantities users typically have versus dealers, and set the limit accordingly.
        skissane 3y ago
        > And you ignored my comment on quantity. Because, we are talking about a government killing people – I myself will say murdering people – over a plant. All your quibbles and defences are just irrelevant when you look at the big picture of what they are doing.
        refurb 3y ago

refurb 3y ago

> Those amounts aren't large, they are trivial. Those are quantities no user would reasonably have in their possession. Even small time dealers could skirt under those numbers. Note these are counted as the "pure" amount, not like the US where they include the cuts. So 15 grams of heroin would be >1,000 doses. 250 g of meth would be 10,000 doses. And sure most of Singapore's death row are drug offenses, but Singapore has almost no crime otherwise, so comparing it to murder (<10 per year) isn't a good comparison. Singapore is very harsh for drug smuggling, but drug use or small time dealing? They do treatment and short jail sentences.

skissane 3y ago
> Even small time dealers could skirt under those numbers. Just because a small-time dealer could skirt under those numbers, doesn't make someone who exceeds them not a small-time dealer. Particularly consider there is a mandatory death penalty for possession of 500 grams of cannabis – and that says nothing in terms of "purity", low THC or high THC it is all the same. According to [0] a "pound" of weed in California costs between US$200 and US$1400, depending on quality and potency. US marijuana dealers define "pound" as exactly 448 grams (as opposed to the modern Anglo-American avordpouis pound of 453.59237 grams). So, given that, the price of 500 grams works out to between (lets round up a little) US$225 and US$1565. You think under US$2000 of marijuana is "too much" for a "small time" dealer to possess? No. You'd need to possess a lot more than that to count as a large scale dealer, or even a medium scale one. Yet Singapore has a mandatory death penalty for it. Singapore has a mandatory death penalty for small-scale marijuana dealing. [0] https://www.vibebycalifornia.com/the-cost-of-cannabis-how-much-is-a-pound-of-weed-in-californias-recreational-market/ https://www.vibebycalifornia.com/the-cost-of-cannabis-how-mu...
- refurb 3y ago
  I don't disagree that the marijuana death penalty is excessive. But I wouldn't compare the Singapore drug market to the US one. They are nowhere close to the same. Costs are way higher and users are lower in number. You don't see seizures of tons of cocaine like you do in the US, it's likely hundreds of grams. If they set "dealer quantities" of those drugs to be the same as the US, nobody would be a dealer.
  - skissane 3y ago
    > Costs are way higher and users are lower in number According to a 2023 Straits Times article [0], 3g of cannabis in Singapore costs S$50, which is about US$37. So a death penalty quantity of marijuana would cost about S$8300, which is about US$6100. (Probably less than that actually because, as with everything, the larger the purchase the lower the per-unit price.) Still nowhere near being "large scale". [0] https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/buying-cannabis-online-was-like-ordering-takeout-pizza-says-former-abuser https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/buying-cannabis-onlin...
    - refurb 3y ago
      Well, I don't think Singapore sets the death penalty based on dollar value of drugs. And you ignored my comment on quantity. Nobody is dealing in multiple kilograms of marijuana in Singapore. But that's super common in the US. The government looked at what quantities users typically have versus dealers, and set the limit accordingly.
      - skissane 3y ago
        > And you ignored my comment on quantity. Because, we are talking about a government killing people – I myself will say murdering people – over a plant. All your quibbles and defences are just irrelevant when you look at the big picture of what they are doing.
        refurb 3y ago