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> The software I encounter most is software that interacts with a changing world. It’s software that needs to adapt to other software, but critically, it needs

> The software I encounter most is software that interacts with a changing world. It’s software that needs to adapt to other software, but critically, it needs to adapt to its users – to people! People change their attitudes and processes in response to the environment, and the software needs to adapt around that Over the last few months I've been evaluating several POS solutions. They come in two varieties: fairly modern SAAS types, and super old school software (feels like it's from the nineties but the two we evaluated both seem to have been created early 2000s) with a local database that is synched online every so often. I can tell you that while the old stuff works, it doesn't feel comfortable to use in a modern environment. One example took around 30 minutes to install on my modern workstation laptop with many steps (and the guy demoing commented in surprise how fast it was!). And that's what software used to be, twenty years ago. Enterprise software, I mean. Everything was clunky and needed a guy who understood it or at least following long complex documents and spending several hours working through the install. Meanwhile, the SAAS varieties have zero install time because I can use the web interface instantly, or install a client app in around 3 minutes. It is much smoother and with a far lower barrier of entry. I've only dealt with the install but the UI is equally different and more intuitive on the modern apps, often with guided tutorials and setup wizards. Although to be fair, some of the modern apps are not great either. But I'm thinking about the best modern app vs the best old-school app while I write this. Both of these styles would work as a POS system. But the old style feels very clunky and uncomfortable to use. I still do deal with lots of clunky installs, databases, long technical documents. But that's because I'm a developer. Non-technical users are far less accepting of these things than they were twenty years ago and the software has to be upgraded to deal with that. We chose one of the smooth and well documented SAAS options. I've been looking around at what other local businesses use and anecdotally it seems like 90% of them also did and only very few use the older style software - and maybe those have been using it for several decades.

jasongi 3y ago
Yet, this is also the tragedy of modern software. While a fancy SaaS POS system will be fast and easy to install, the legacy local database version is going to keep working throughout an internet blackout (with cash), a power outage (via backup power) or an outage of the remote server. I doubt anybody is losing customers over a 1s delay in the till opening or a POS server syncing the day’s transaction after close. But having worked in retail - the one time you get a call from head office is when there’s “loss of trading” - it’s a bigger issue than theft. I remember there being an entire tourist town that was suffering economically because during peak season, the mobile phone tower was saturated and merchants could not process card payments. You can’t even use click-clack machines anymore with modern credit cards. Now… working offline is entirely doable in a modern tech stack too - but I somehow doubt most modern POS products support it well.
- esperent 3y ago
  The modern SAAS versions all work without internet using the client app. As we are in Vietnam, I don't think any business would ever choose a POS solution that didn't work without internet or via battery power during an outage. So there's no loss of functionality there. There are power outages around once a month, scheduled or unscheduled, not to mention storm season which has more frequent outages, sometimes for several days. So this functionality gets well tested. All banking solutions - as well as the POS system - can work on mobile data and that usually is fine during an outage. The only time mobile data failed in recent years was after a 3 day power outage following a typhoon, when I guess their batteries failed. By that time our business was pretty much shut down due to supply issues anyway. So basically, as long as the battery or generator lasts, all of these POS solutions will perform equivalently. Edit: and to further clarify, I don't think there are any features that the old schools apps have that the new ones don't. Unless you consider a local database or not using a web browser as features (which is valid but not my view). While the newer ones tend to have a much stronger focus on accessibility (probably because they are basically web apps) and translation.
brabel 3y ago
Why were they "installing" stuff on your laptop instead of, for example, using Docker, or even better, Nix, which are tools that solve this entirely?
- esperent 3y ago
  Why would I know the answer to that?
  - brabel 3y ago
    Because you're complaining like there's no solution. Well, there are many solutions.
- ozim 3y ago
  Are they? I have to install docker still, I have to configure networking to access the thing that is in the container because defaults work for demo, but in production env you still have to have bunch of stuff in front of docker. If I have defaults for the system in database that I need to change so anything that is in docker actually works. With docker/kubernetes I have one more thing to worry about and still lots of config that doesn’t go away “because docker”.

jasongi 3y ago

Yet, this is also the tragedy of modern software. While a fancy SaaS POS system will be fast and easy to install, the legacy local database version is going to keep working throughout an internet blackout (with cash), a power outage (via backup power) or an outage of the remote server. I doubt anybody is losing customers over a 1s delay in the till opening or a POS server syncing the day’s transaction after close. But having worked in retail - the one time you get a call from head office is when there’s “loss of trading” - it’s a bigger issue than theft. I remember there being an entire tourist town that was suffering economically because during peak season, the mobile phone tower was saturated and merchants could not process card payments. You can’t even use click-clack machines anymore with modern credit cards. Now… working offline is entirely doable in a modern tech stack too - but I somehow doubt most modern POS products support it well.

esperent 3y ago
The modern SAAS versions all work without internet using the client app. As we are in Vietnam, I don't think any business would ever choose a POS solution that didn't work without internet or via battery power during an outage. So there's no loss of functionality there. There are power outages around once a month, scheduled or unscheduled, not to mention storm season which has more frequent outages, sometimes for several days. So this functionality gets well tested. All banking solutions - as well as the POS system - can work on mobile data and that usually is fine during an outage. The only time mobile data failed in recent years was after a 3 day power outage following a typhoon, when I guess their batteries failed. By that time our business was pretty much shut down due to supply issues anyway. So basically, as long as the battery or generator lasts, all of these POS solutions will perform equivalently. Edit: and to further clarify, I don't think there are any features that the old schools apps have that the new ones don't. Unless you consider a local database or not using a web browser as features (which is valid but not my view). While the newer ones tend to have a much stronger focus on accessibility (probably because they are basically web apps) and translation.

brabel 3y ago

Why were they "installing" stuff on your laptop instead of, for example, using Docker, or even better, Nix, which are tools that solve this entirely?

esperent 3y ago
Why would I know the answer to that?
- brabel 3y ago
  Because you're complaining like there's no solution. Well, there are many solutions.
ozim 3y ago
Are they? I have to install docker still, I have to configure networking to access the thing that is in the container because defaults work for demo, but in production env you still have to have bunch of stuff in front of docker. If I have defaults for the system in database that I need to change so anything that is in docker actually works. With docker/kubernetes I have one more thing to worry about and still lots of config that doesn’t go away “because docker”.