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Can you talk more about how you have managed to stay on the ketogenic diet for decades? It seems so crazily restrictive in the context of our society’s current

by voisin 3y ago

Can you talk more about how you have managed to stay on the ketogenic diet for decades? It seems so crazily restrictive in the context of our society’s current relationship with food.

swatcoder 3y ago
Countless people maintain diets that others would characterize as crazily restrictive. Ultimately, you don't embody "society's relationship with food" -- you embody your own relationship with food. For some people, the crazy restrictive diet is a cultural inheritence, for others it's just an adopted practice that becomes easier with time. Once you know how to adhere to a diet in all of circumstances your life involves, which is particular to yourself, it never feels restrictive at all. It's just what you eat, the same as whatever you eat now.
- voisin 3y ago
  > Ultimately, you don't embody "society's relationship with food" -- you embody your own relationship with food I should’ve been more pointed with my question. For a few years I was a strict vegan and I found it very challenging to stay vegan when travelling, with visiting others, and when at restaurants or cafes. This wasn’t an issue of “my relationship to food” but more the context of “society’s relationship to food” and my role in that society. Having tried keto (a half assed attempt that I’d like to build upon in the future with another, real attempt), I think keto is a more difficult than vegan in the examples I gave above as there is a steeper learning curve for the general population given that most people have no idea what “net carbs” means or even pay attention to the carb content of food but everyone knows “did this come from an animal or is it an animal”.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
lambdaba 3y ago
There's nothing more restrictive than being chronically mentally ill. The modern diet is so horribly misaligned with our biology, when you've been to the extreme of its consequences, there is no urge to rejoin with the crowd. Just look at the insane obesity rates, and other chronic diseases. In passing, check out the popular YouTube channel "living well with schizophrenia", she has recently switched to a ketogenic diet and it's successfully treating her condition and is on the path of going off her medication https://youtu.be/kU1ORt6ZnVE https://youtu.be/kU1ORt6ZnVE
Modified3019 3y ago
For me it’s extremely easy to cut things out wholesale from my diet if I’ve recognized a cause-effect relationship. Which can be hard to do, since food problems are often a chronic rather than acute issue, taking months to come into effect or subside. In my case my primary restriction is removal or reduction of omega-6 sources. This wipes out much of what is found in a grocery store, like most condiments and salad dressings, frozen foods, baked goods and deserts, chips, no fatty pork or chicken (which is high in omega-6 due to bioaccumulating it from their feed), etc. And absolutely no French fries or other commercially fried food. For me excess Omega-6’s appear to result directly and repeatedly in severe depression, dry(er) skin, eczema outbreaks, and weight gain even when undereating. This turns items containing omega-6 mentally into poison, which makes it easy to avoid. Just think of what happens when you get food poisoning from something you like even once, it changes the way you look at it for a long time. When I look at French fries, I don’t think “oh man I wish…”, I flashback to the times where for months I’d spend hours every single day sucked involuntarily into negative mental spirals, where the only comfort I had was my fantasies about finally dying. While Omega-6s certainly isn’t my sole cause of depression, it does seem to repeatedly amplify it far beyond what I can deal with. What’s left is things which do require a bit more home preparation, but I’ve worked out a variety of low effort/time options. Beef, non-fatty seafood, some eggs, butter/coconut oil, vegetables, rarely fruits, “pure” carb sources like dry pasta, beans or potatoes. I’ll even make cornbread, brownies, or muffins sometimes, I just make them with an equivalent volume of melted butter instead of oil. Still need to keep an eye on calories for those… but way better tasting and they don’t seem to cause that slightly upset/acidy stomach feeling that I realized store bought versions give me. Given my aversion to most pork and chicken, keto wouldn’t be the most sustainable for me personally, since I’d be left with basically only beef and vegetables. That would end up monotonous even for me and I don’t have further identifiable problems with carbs I’m trying to solve. Which might be for the best, I’d likely be happy to eat nothing but brats and chicken wings until I die.
- breck 3y ago
  > For me excess Omega-6’s appear to result directly and repeatedly Have you looked into what the biomechanisms might be? What is Omega-6? What happens to Omega-6 once it goes down your esophagus? Where in the body does it go? Does it cross the blood brain barrier? Does it enter cells? How is it excreted?

by voisin 3y ago

Can you talk more about how you have managed to stay on the ketogenic diet for decades? It seems so crazily restrictive in the context of our society’s current relationship with food.

swatcoder 3y ago

Countless people maintain diets that others would characterize as crazily restrictive. Ultimately, you don't embody "society's relationship with food" -- you embody your own relationship with food. For some people, the crazy restrictive diet is a cultural inheritence, for others it's just an adopted practice that becomes easier with time. Once you know how to adhere to a diet in all of circumstances your life involves, which is particular to yourself, it never feels restrictive at all. It's just what you eat, the same as whatever you eat now.

voisin 3y ago
> Ultimately, you don't embody "society's relationship with food" -- you embody your own relationship with food I should’ve been more pointed with my question. For a few years I was a strict vegan and I found it very challenging to stay vegan when travelling, with visiting others, and when at restaurants or cafes. This wasn’t an issue of “my relationship to food” but more the context of “society’s relationship to food” and my role in that society. Having tried keto (a half assed attempt that I’d like to build upon in the future with another, real attempt), I think keto is a more difficult than vegan in the examples I gave above as there is a steeper learning curve for the general population given that most people have no idea what “net carbs” means or even pay attention to the carb content of food but everyone knows “did this come from an animal or is it an animal”.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

lambdaba 3y ago

There's nothing more restrictive than being chronically mentally ill. The modern diet is so horribly misaligned with our biology, when you've been to the extreme of its consequences, there is no urge to rejoin with the crowd. Just look at the insane obesity rates, and other chronic diseases. In passing, check out the popular YouTube channel "living well with schizophrenia", she has recently switched to a ketogenic diet and it's successfully treating her condition and is on the path of going off her medication https://youtu.be/kU1ORt6ZnVE https://youtu.be/kU1ORt6ZnVE

Modified3019 3y ago

For me it’s extremely easy to cut things out wholesale from my diet if I’ve recognized a cause-effect relationship. Which can be hard to do, since food problems are often a chronic rather than acute issue, taking months to come into effect or subside. In my case my primary restriction is removal or reduction of omega-6 sources. This wipes out much of what is found in a grocery store, like most condiments and salad dressings, frozen foods, baked goods and deserts, chips, no fatty pork or chicken (which is high in omega-6 due to bioaccumulating it from their feed), etc. And absolutely no French fries or other commercially fried food. For me excess Omega-6’s appear to result directly and repeatedly in severe depression, dry(er) skin, eczema outbreaks, and weight gain even when undereating. This turns items containing omega-6 mentally into poison, which makes it easy to avoid. Just think of what happens when you get food poisoning from something you like even once, it changes the way you look at it for a long time. When I look at French fries, I don’t think “oh man I wish…”, I flashback to the times where for months I’d spend hours every single day sucked involuntarily into negative mental spirals, where the only comfort I had was my fantasies about finally dying. While Omega-6s certainly isn’t my sole cause of depression, it does seem to repeatedly amplify it far beyond what I can deal with. What’s left is things which do require a bit more home preparation, but I’ve worked out a variety of low effort/time options. Beef, non-fatty seafood, some eggs, butter/coconut oil, vegetables, rarely fruits, “pure” carb sources like dry pasta, beans or potatoes. I’ll even make cornbread, brownies, or muffins sometimes, I just make them with an equivalent volume of melted butter instead of oil. Still need to keep an eye on calories for those… but way better tasting and they don’t seem to cause that slightly upset/acidy stomach feeling that I realized store bought versions give me. Given my aversion to most pork and chicken, keto wouldn’t be the most sustainable for me personally, since I’d be left with basically only beef and vegetables. That would end up monotonous even for me and I don’t have further identifiable problems with carbs I’m trying to solve. Which might be for the best, I’d likely be happy to eat nothing but brats and chicken wings until I die.

breck 3y ago
> For me excess Omega-6’s appear to result directly and repeatedly Have you looked into what the biomechanisms might be? What is Omega-6? What happens to Omega-6 once it goes down your esophagus? Where in the body does it go? Does it cross the blood brain barrier? Does it enter cells? How is it excreted?