4 ms·

Arguing that a random homeless drug addict with negative net social utility is entitled to housing on some of the most expensive land in the world is completely

by sp527 2y ago

Arguing that a random homeless drug addict with negative net social utility is entitled to housing on some of the most expensive land in the world is completely bonkers.

sapphicsnail 2y ago
All human life is valuable. Measuring people's worth through "social utility" is such a fucked way to look at the world.
- jlawson 2y ago
  And yet you do it every day when you decide who to associate with and invite into your life and home. Why can't the community do the same thing you do personally?
  - vineyardmike 2y ago
    Should we kick out our children from our home who misbehave? Or do we try to teach them, and help them and let them grow. Many (most?) of the homeless you see around you are your community. They don't need to be invited into the city because it's their home too. I live in SF and I know homeless people who have lived on the same street corner longer than some of my coworkers have lived in the city (or even the country). Many of the people who experience such misfortunes - even drug addicts who behave poorly - are long-time residents who once helped make the city the place it is. Sure their behave causes issues, and society needs to do something, but implying they don't have a claim to be helped in their own city is unfair.
    - vasco 2y ago
      > Should we kick out our children from our home who misbehave? Or do we try to teach them, and help them and let them grow. The second one. Over and over again. And when they are adults and we've given them a few more chances, we should then cut our losses. Many families go through the heartbreak which is trying again and again and failing. I don't judge those families, and know a few of those personally. And this is people's blood relatives. Extrapolate from that what you will.
    - jlawson 2y ago
      If someone in my home is daily screaming at me, shitting on the floor, stealing things and threatening children - they're going. Roommate, relative, doesn't matter. They're out, or I am. Someone's claim to live in a good community ends when they start actively destroying that community day after day. You get the community you work to build; you don't get to live in my wonderful community every day while you daily do horrifying things to ruin it. This is the only way good communities can exist.
Sabinus 2y ago
They only have net negative social utility at the moment, they have the potential to be productive citizens. Plus, productive citizens need to share a society with the drug addicted homeless. That society is going to be more peaceful if the needs of those homeless are met.
zoklet-enjoyer 2y ago
Some of those people were around before it became some of the most expensive land in the world. Why should people be pushed out of their communities?
- heffer 2y ago
  Because some people view privilege of any kind critically. Also, especially in North America, being some place first has not historically proven to be a sufficient claim.

by sp527 2y ago

Arguing that a random homeless drug addict with negative net social utility is entitled to housing on some of the most expensive land in the world is completely bonkers.

sapphicsnail 2y ago

All human life is valuable. Measuring people's worth through "social utility" is such a fucked way to look at the world.

jlawson 2y ago
And yet you do it every day when you decide who to associate with and invite into your life and home. Why can't the community do the same thing you do personally?
- vineyardmike 2y ago
  Should we kick out our children from our home who misbehave? Or do we try to teach them, and help them and let them grow. Many (most?) of the homeless you see around you are your community. They don't need to be invited into the city because it's their home too. I live in SF and I know homeless people who have lived on the same street corner longer than some of my coworkers have lived in the city (or even the country). Many of the people who experience such misfortunes - even drug addicts who behave poorly - are long-time residents who once helped make the city the place it is. Sure their behave causes issues, and society needs to do something, but implying they don't have a claim to be helped in their own city is unfair.
  - vasco 2y ago
    > Should we kick out our children from our home who misbehave? Or do we try to teach them, and help them and let them grow. The second one. Over and over again. And when they are adults and we've given them a few more chances, we should then cut our losses. Many families go through the heartbreak which is trying again and again and failing. I don't judge those families, and know a few of those personally. And this is people's blood relatives. Extrapolate from that what you will.
  - jlawson 2y ago
    If someone in my home is daily screaming at me, shitting on the floor, stealing things and threatening children - they're going. Roommate, relative, doesn't matter. They're out, or I am. Someone's claim to live in a good community ends when they start actively destroying that community day after day. You get the community you work to build; you don't get to live in my wonderful community every day while you daily do horrifying things to ruin it. This is the only way good communities can exist.

Sabinus 2y ago

They only have net negative social utility at the moment, they have the potential to be productive citizens. Plus, productive citizens need to share a society with the drug addicted homeless. That society is going to be more peaceful if the needs of those homeless are met.

zoklet-enjoyer 2y ago

Some of those people were around before it became some of the most expensive land in the world. Why should people be pushed out of their communities?

heffer 2y ago
Because some people view privilege of any kind critically. Also, especially in North America, being some place first has not historically proven to be a sufficient claim.