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Shouldn't churches evoke feelings of divinity instead of oppression? (I know it's popular to hate on brutalist architecture, but really isn't a place of worship

Shouldn't churches evoke feelings of divinity instead of oppression? (I know it's popular to hate on brutalist architecture, but really isn't a place of worship the last place you'd want it?)

thetruckgoes 2y ago
Haven't the churches been [historically] oppressive?
- temp0826 2y ago
  I get that it's popular to hate on religion too ;), so I suppose that's ironic to some.
  - randohostage 2y ago
    is it though like really? >6 billion people in the world actively identify with one religion or another but in terms of ratio there are more memes on social media about athesim than religions at least on my AI curated feed
    - thrance 2y ago
      There is plenty of hate speech towards non-believers if you look a little bit for it. In fact, I'd even say that as unfunny and overseen atheists memes are, they are the most tame of all religious critic online.
- joemazerino 2y ago
  Depends on your scale. On one hand, all institutions are oppressive at some level. On the other, Christianity is the foundation of the free society you (most likely) live in.
  - mulmen 2y ago
    I wouldn’t give so much credit to Christianity, or any religion. The modern west is built on enlightenment ideas, not least of which is the separation of church and state.
Gare 2y ago
Why are you finding brutalist architecture oppressive?
- vundercind 2y ago
  They tend to look like something someone who didn’t give a shit made. “I just need a box for people to be in, who cares what it looks like?” The example brutalist churches in another post here look like someone doing a horrible experiment in the Sims made buildings without bothering to use anything but some default wall texture they found buried in the dev tools that doesn’t even tile very well, because they just needed a place to torture Sims in and don’t care what it looks like. Yeah, that comes off as oppressive.
  - bombcar 2y ago
    The oldest churches direct you to the heavens and God. Early modern churches direct you to the preacher. Modern churches direct you to the architect. (Or building repair services depending on whom you ask.)
  - djur 2y ago
    I don't see it that way at all. A lot of care and thought went into these designs, and they evoke the kind of awe you would expect from a god's house. These aren't just hulking concrete bunkers like some of the institutional brutalism you see.
    - snowpid 2y ago
      Maybe these architects should think, why their "well thought" experiments just look lazy designed.
      - djur 2y ago
        They don't. Are you telling me that you look at this and think "what a lazy design"? https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2024/04/sacred-modernity-brutalist-churches-jamie-smith_dezeen_2364_col_8-1704x1363.jpg https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2024/04/sacred-modernity-b...
deadbabe 2y ago
They could soften it up by adding some plants. Eco-brutalist!
jltsiren 2y ago
Depends on who you ask. It's a somewhat common belief that churches should be plain and unadorned and that religious art can lead to idolatry. Ideas like that were particularly popular among early Protestants.
dragonwriter 2y ago
Many of the brutalist churches I’ve seen do not, IMO, “evoke feelings of oppression” (aside from any one might have as a result of personal conflict with the religious institution behind them, which is a separate issue.) Including, I should mention, most of those in TFA.
- wrp 2y ago
  I suppose we just have to chalk it up to different tastes in art. To me, my first thought on seeing most of those pictures is how they look like settings for some implausibly dystopian sci-fi movie.
  - grobgambit 2y ago
    No doubt. I find these churches amazingly beautiful. I also think in the sense of how a church in 1500 was not a relic of the past the way we view a church from 1500 today. I would say a church from 1500 was much closer to what the churches in this article would have been in 1500. Of course, there is a real issue that while I find these amazingly beautiful I would never go to one because I am not the least bit Christian or religious.
    - wrp 2y ago
      Somewhat to that last point, my emotional reaction to these structures would be completely different if I knew they were designed to be car parks.
      - onionisafruit 2y ago
        I don’t have a car, but I would love for the parking garage near me look like the churches in the article (putting aside the practical differences in requirements). Similarly, I would welcome one on these church buildings replacing one of my neighborhood churches just to give us something different to look at.
  - silverquiet 2y ago
    Probably the most famous Brutalist public art in Texas, the Fort Worth Water Gardens, was indeed used in filming of Logan's Run. I've generally found the Brutalist buildings in Texas rather ugly on the exterior at least, but did find a sense of comfort in occupying them; perhaps there's something cave-like and solid about their atmosphere. I did enjoy visiting the Water Gardens; I think it's a good expression of the style. However, many of the churches pictured here are on another level. Something about the austere concrete juxtaposed to the wooden pews (and speaking as someone raised Catholic, it's hard to imagine a pew brutal enough to satisfy god) works quite well for me. I'm really impressed by some of these.
keeganpoppen 2y ago
our perhaps evoking the feeling of being a part of something bigger than yourself? which brutalist architecture absolutely does.
aaron695 2y ago
[dead]
Barrin92 2y ago
I don't really see what's oppressive about any of these buildings. Many of the qualities of the divine are recognizable in these churches. Simplicity, transcending of the natural world, and so on. When people talk about the divine, especially in the Abrahamic traditions, it's common to talk about what God isn't. (negative theology). You shouldn't make an image of God. To approach the divine is to remove everything that isn't divine and experiencing what is left over. And I think that's fantastically realized in the austerity of these churches. I've visited some of them, my favorite one isn't actually mentioned here, it's a pretty small church outside of Osaka, the Church of Light by Tadao Ando. (https://youtu.be/7ZtfYOD5I8M https://youtu.be/7ZtfYOD5I8M)
retrac 2y ago
Gothic architecture also feels oppressive, at least to me. I believe that is working as intended; dread and awe bring us closer to the divine.
- graemep 2y ago
  Not to me. I find it uplifting and joyous. I find the same of the best of the modern churches (brutalist or otherwise0
bazoom42 2y ago
How does divinity feel? According to the bible you drop dead instantly if you gaze upon the face of God. These church spaces eschews color and decoration and instead shape the light and the space itself to give you a feeling of the divine.

Shouldn't churches evoke feelings of divinity instead of oppression? (I know it's popular to hate on brutalist architecture, but really isn't a place of worship the last place you'd want it?)

thetruckgoes 2y ago

Haven't the churches been [historically] oppressive?

temp0826 2y ago
I get that it's popular to hate on religion too ;), so I suppose that's ironic to some.
- randohostage 2y ago
  is it though like really? >6 billion people in the world actively identify with one religion or another but in terms of ratio there are more memes on social media about athesim than religions at least on my AI curated feed
  - thrance 2y ago
    There is plenty of hate speech towards non-believers if you look a little bit for it. In fact, I'd even say that as unfunny and overseen atheists memes are, they are the most tame of all religious critic online.
joemazerino 2y ago
Depends on your scale. On one hand, all institutions are oppressive at some level. On the other, Christianity is the foundation of the free society you (most likely) live in.
- mulmen 2y ago
  I wouldn’t give so much credit to Christianity, or any religion. The modern west is built on enlightenment ideas, not least of which is the separation of church and state.

Gare 2y ago

Why are you finding brutalist architecture oppressive?

vundercind 2y ago
They tend to look like something someone who didn’t give a shit made. “I just need a box for people to be in, who cares what it looks like?” The example brutalist churches in another post here look like someone doing a horrible experiment in the Sims made buildings without bothering to use anything but some default wall texture they found buried in the dev tools that doesn’t even tile very well, because they just needed a place to torture Sims in and don’t care what it looks like. Yeah, that comes off as oppressive.
- bombcar 2y ago
  The oldest churches direct you to the heavens and God. Early modern churches direct you to the preacher. Modern churches direct you to the architect. (Or building repair services depending on whom you ask.)
- djur 2y ago
  I don't see it that way at all. A lot of care and thought went into these designs, and they evoke the kind of awe you would expect from a god's house. These aren't just hulking concrete bunkers like some of the institutional brutalism you see.
  - snowpid 2y ago
    Maybe these architects should think, why their "well thought" experiments just look lazy designed.
    - djur 2y ago
      They don't. Are you telling me that you look at this and think "what a lazy design"? https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2024/04/sacred-modernity-brutalist-churches-jamie-smith_dezeen_2364_col_8-1704x1363.jpg https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2024/04/sacred-modernity-b...

deadbabe 2y ago

They could soften it up by adding some plants. Eco-brutalist!

jltsiren 2y ago

Depends on who you ask. It's a somewhat common belief that churches should be plain and unadorned and that religious art can lead to idolatry. Ideas like that were particularly popular among early Protestants.

dragonwriter 2y ago

Many of the brutalist churches I’ve seen do not, IMO, “evoke feelings of oppression” (aside from any one might have as a result of personal conflict with the religious institution behind them, which is a separate issue.) Including, I should mention, most of those in TFA.

wrp 2y ago
I suppose we just have to chalk it up to different tastes in art. To me, my first thought on seeing most of those pictures is how they look like settings for some implausibly dystopian sci-fi movie.
- grobgambit 2y ago
  No doubt. I find these churches amazingly beautiful. I also think in the sense of how a church in 1500 was not a relic of the past the way we view a church from 1500 today. I would say a church from 1500 was much closer to what the churches in this article would have been in 1500. Of course, there is a real issue that while I find these amazingly beautiful I would never go to one because I am not the least bit Christian or religious.
  - wrp 2y ago
    Somewhat to that last point, my emotional reaction to these structures would be completely different if I knew they were designed to be car parks.
    - onionisafruit 2y ago
      I don’t have a car, but I would love for the parking garage near me look like the churches in the article (putting aside the practical differences in requirements). Similarly, I would welcome one on these church buildings replacing one of my neighborhood churches just to give us something different to look at.
- silverquiet 2y ago
  Probably the most famous Brutalist public art in Texas, the Fort Worth Water Gardens, was indeed used in filming of Logan's Run. I've generally found the Brutalist buildings in Texas rather ugly on the exterior at least, but did find a sense of comfort in occupying them; perhaps there's something cave-like and solid about their atmosphere. I did enjoy visiting the Water Gardens; I think it's a good expression of the style. However, many of the churches pictured here are on another level. Something about the austere concrete juxtaposed to the wooden pews (and speaking as someone raised Catholic, it's hard to imagine a pew brutal enough to satisfy god) works quite well for me. I'm really impressed by some of these.

keeganpoppen 2y ago

our perhaps evoking the feeling of being a part of something bigger than yourself? which brutalist architecture absolutely does.

aaron695 2y ago

[dead]

Barrin92 2y ago

I don't really see what's oppressive about any of these buildings. Many of the qualities of the divine are recognizable in these churches. Simplicity, transcending of the natural world, and so on. When people talk about the divine, especially in the Abrahamic traditions, it's common to talk about what God isn't. (negative theology). You shouldn't make an image of God. To approach the divine is to remove everything that isn't divine and experiencing what is left over. And I think that's fantastically realized in the austerity of these churches. I've visited some of them, my favorite one isn't actually mentioned here, it's a pretty small church outside of Osaka, the Church of Light by Tadao Ando. (https://youtu.be/7ZtfYOD5I8M https://youtu.be/7ZtfYOD5I8M)

retrac 2y ago

Gothic architecture also feels oppressive, at least to me. I believe that is working as intended; dread and awe bring us closer to the divine.

graemep 2y ago
Not to me. I find it uplifting and joyous. I find the same of the best of the modern churches (brutalist or otherwise0

bazoom42 2y ago

How does divinity feel? According to the bible you drop dead instantly if you gaze upon the face of God. These church spaces eschews color and decoration and instead shape the light and the space itself to give you a feeling of the divine.