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At this point, internet is like electricity. Except that I have more choices for power providers than I do for internet. In my building in New York City, I ha

At this point, internet is like electricity. Except that I have more choices for power providers than I do for internet. In my building in New York City, I have one option (cable via Spectrum), and the cheapest plan they offer is $80 per month. It recently got a lot faster, which is nice, but I'd happily pay $30/month instead for a small fraction of the bandwidth. But I can't. I wouldn't qualify for the hypothetical state enforced $15 option anyway.

legitster 2y ago
> Except that I have more choices for power providers than I do for internet I've lived in over 15 different places in the US, and I have never, ever had more than 1 option for power provider.
- nobody9999 2y ago
  >> Except that I have more choices for power providers than I do for internet >I've lived in over 15 different places in the US, and I have never, ever had more than 1 option for power provider. In NYC, Con Edison[0] delivers power to customers. It also generates power, but other power generation companies share their delivery infrastructure in NYC. As such, there are at least half a dozen folks I can buy my power from. But all of it is delivered by Con Edison -- which, by the way, charges more for delivery than it does for the power itself. This may well be different from other places in the US/world, but that's how it is here. N.B.: I too, have only two choices (spectrum and RCN) for broadband where I live, but (as I mentioned) at least half a dozen power providers. [0] https://www.coned.com/en https://www.coned.com/en Edit: Added the missing link
  - legitster 2y ago
    This seems like a specific feature to NYC.
    - mckn1ght 2y ago
      It was also possible when I lived in Boston, see for example: https://www.energyswitchma.gov/#/compare/2/1/02108// https://www.energyswitchma.gov/#/compare/2/1/02108//
    - jessriedel 2y ago
      In SF I have two power generation options and one delivery option. It’s stupid because one of the generation options is both cheaper and greener (I don’t know of any reason to prefer the other), and delivery is literally 3x the generation cost so it doesn’t matter much either way.
    - buzer 2y ago
      In bay area I can choose between PG&E and Silicon Valley Clean Energy for power. PG&E even handles the billing for SVCE. In Finland there was local monopoly for delivery and power could be bought from numerous companies. I just checked offers for my old place and I could choose between 250 different products, some from same companies (e.g. fixed term/permanent, guaranteed wind power, market rate). In there you would get separate bill from your power company rather than it being handled by the local delivery company.
    - throwaway290232 2y ago
      US Law often requires power generators to operate separately from distributors. Even when it's the same company, they have to operate as two separate businesses, and it's illegal for them to even mention certain information to each other as it's considered anti-competitive. The purpose is to allow the market to provide competition. This is not specific to NYC. An Introductory Guide to Electricity Markets regulated by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission: https://www.ferc.gov/introductory-guide-electricity-markets-regulated-federal-energy-regulatory-commission https://www.ferc.gov/introductory-guide-electricity-markets-... Deregulation and competition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_of_the_United_States#Deregulation_and_competition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_of_the_Unit...
    - ssl-3 2y ago
      It may seem specific to NYC, but it's also that way in many other places in the US -- places like Ohio, and Texas. https://www.cnet.com/home/energy-and-utilities/energy-deregulation/ https://www.cnet.com/home/energy-and-utilities/energy-deregu... A combination of some napkin math and 2020 Census data suggests that ~35% of the US population lives in a state that the above article declares to be "fully deregulated".
- illusive4080 2y ago
  In many places your delivery is fixed but you can choose who to buy the power from. It’s all mixed in the grid of course but they do buy proportionate power from the generation companies. It’s more common in gas service in my experience than in electric. Personally I have 10+ choices for gas supplier, 2 choices for buried internet (eg excluding Starlink, etc), and 1 choice for power (co-op)
gruez 2y ago
>At this point, internet is like electricity. Except that I have more choices for power providers than I do for internet. "choices for power providers" in this context is probably the choice of the company that generates your electricity, not the company that delivers those electrons to your house. Given how the electricity grid works, the exact electrons you're getting might not even be related to the company you're supposedly buying power from. In this respect the electricity provider can't really be compared to an ISP.
- mindslight 2y ago
  Electrons aren't being delivered. The drift velocity of electrons at typical currents is very low, alternating current all but guarantees they're not going anywhere anyway, and even if they did it would only be to the local distribution transformer.
qaisjp 2y ago
And Spectrum has interruptions all the time.
tedmiston 2y ago
> At this point, internet is like electricity. Except that I have more choices for power providers than I do for internet. In my building in New York City, I have one option (cable via Spectrum), and the cheapest plan they offer is $80 per month. Why limit yourself to cable internet in 2024? Cellular home internet is widely available and fast. https://www.cnet.com/home/internet/cellular-home-internet-overview/ https://www.cnet.com/home/internet/cellular-home-internet-ov... https://www.usnews.com/360-reviews/services/internet-providers/best-5g-home-internet https://www.usnews.com/360-reviews/services/internet-provide... https://broadbandnow.com/5G/home-internet https://broadbandnow.com/5G/home-internet

legitster 2y ago

> Except that I have more choices for power providers than I do for internet I've lived in over 15 different places in the US, and I have never, ever had more than 1 option for power provider.

nobody9999 2y ago
>> Except that I have more choices for power providers than I do for internet >I've lived in over 15 different places in the US, and I have never, ever had more than 1 option for power provider. In NYC, Con Edison[0] delivers power to customers. It also generates power, but other power generation companies share their delivery infrastructure in NYC. As such, there are at least half a dozen folks I can buy my power from. But all of it is delivered by Con Edison -- which, by the way, charges more for delivery than it does for the power itself. This may well be different from other places in the US/world, but that's how it is here. N.B.: I too, have only two choices (spectrum and RCN) for broadband where I live, but (as I mentioned) at least half a dozen power providers. [0] https://www.coned.com/en https://www.coned.com/en Edit: Added the missing link
- legitster 2y ago
  This seems like a specific feature to NYC.
  - mckn1ght 2y ago
    It was also possible when I lived in Boston, see for example: https://www.energyswitchma.gov/#/compare/2/1/02108// https://www.energyswitchma.gov/#/compare/2/1/02108//
  - jessriedel 2y ago
    In SF I have two power generation options and one delivery option. It’s stupid because one of the generation options is both cheaper and greener (I don’t know of any reason to prefer the other), and delivery is literally 3x the generation cost so it doesn’t matter much either way.
  - buzer 2y ago
    In bay area I can choose between PG&E and Silicon Valley Clean Energy for power. PG&E even handles the billing for SVCE. In Finland there was local monopoly for delivery and power could be bought from numerous companies. I just checked offers for my old place and I could choose between 250 different products, some from same companies (e.g. fixed term/permanent, guaranteed wind power, market rate). In there you would get separate bill from your power company rather than it being handled by the local delivery company.
  - throwaway290232 2y ago
    US Law often requires power generators to operate separately from distributors. Even when it's the same company, they have to operate as two separate businesses, and it's illegal for them to even mention certain information to each other as it's considered anti-competitive. The purpose is to allow the market to provide competition. This is not specific to NYC. An Introductory Guide to Electricity Markets regulated by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission: https://www.ferc.gov/introductory-guide-electricity-markets-regulated-federal-energy-regulatory-commission https://www.ferc.gov/introductory-guide-electricity-markets-... Deregulation and competition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_of_the_United_States#Deregulation_and_competition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_of_the_Unit...
  - ssl-3 2y ago
    It may seem specific to NYC, but it's also that way in many other places in the US -- places like Ohio, and Texas. https://www.cnet.com/home/energy-and-utilities/energy-deregulation/ https://www.cnet.com/home/energy-and-utilities/energy-deregu... A combination of some napkin math and 2020 Census data suggests that ~35% of the US population lives in a state that the above article declares to be "fully deregulated".
illusive4080 2y ago
In many places your delivery is fixed but you can choose who to buy the power from. It’s all mixed in the grid of course but they do buy proportionate power from the generation companies. It’s more common in gas service in my experience than in electric. Personally I have 10+ choices for gas supplier, 2 choices for buried internet (eg excluding Starlink, etc), and 1 choice for power (co-op)

gruez 2y ago

>At this point, internet is like electricity. Except that I have more choices for power providers than I do for internet. "choices for power providers" in this context is probably the choice of the company that generates your electricity, not the company that delivers those electrons to your house. Given how the electricity grid works, the exact electrons you're getting might not even be related to the company you're supposedly buying power from. In this respect the electricity provider can't really be compared to an ISP.

mindslight 2y ago
Electrons aren't being delivered. The drift velocity of electrons at typical currents is very low, alternating current all but guarantees they're not going anywhere anyway, and even if they did it would only be to the local distribution transformer.

qaisjp 2y ago

And Spectrum has interruptions all the time.

tedmiston 2y ago

> At this point, internet is like electricity. Except that I have more choices for power providers than I do for internet. In my building in New York City, I have one option (cable via Spectrum), and the cheapest plan they offer is $80 per month. Why limit yourself to cable internet in 2024? Cellular home internet is widely available and fast. https://www.cnet.com/home/internet/cellular-home-internet-overview/ https://www.cnet.com/home/internet/cellular-home-internet-ov... https://www.usnews.com/360-reviews/services/internet-providers/best-5g-home-internet https://www.usnews.com/360-reviews/services/internet-provide... https://broadbandnow.com/5G/home-internet https://broadbandnow.com/5G/home-internet