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Governments already charge ISPs to use said infrastructure: https://www.fcc.gov/sites/default/files/ad-hoc-commitee-survey-04242018.pdf https://www.fcc.gov/sit

Governments already charge ISPs to use said infrastructure: https://www.fcc.gov/sites/default/files/ad-hoc-commitee-survey-04242018.pdf https://www.fcc.gov/sites/default/files/ad-hoc-commitee-surv... So for those poles running down the street in front of your house, ISPs are already paying ~$20 per pole per year. Places like NYC probably also take a cut of the revenue on top. In some regions, this is the primary gatekeeper against competition! It's really hard to argue that this is a subsidy - if anything it's the municipalities using the power of their natural monopoly.

BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
> $20 per pole per year So low? That's approximately 0% of what the ISP makes from the homes served by that pole. I figured it would be more.
- legitster 3y ago
  I think you are exaggerating a bit. I have a pole in front of my house that just serves me and my neighbor. I pay $480 a year for Comcast, my neighbor gets CenturyLink. So the cost for the pole rental works out to about 5% of Comcast's service cost to me. Keep in mind some poles cost more than others (up to $250 according to the report), and that there are also hookup costs for the pole are ~$1000. I'm not saying ISPs are suffering here, but cities are not providing this infrastructure at a loss.
  - BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
    > I have a pole in front of my house that just serves me and my neighbor Hah. We live in veeeeery different housing densities I guess. I was thinking this was NYC, which would be closer to mine. If it's the whole state then probably somewhere in between.
    - dmurray 3y ago
      Some reasonable sources [0] put the number of telephone poles in the US (175m) a little above the number of households (125m). [0] https://www.srperspective.com/post/telephone-poles-a-high-wire-act https://www.srperspective.com/post/telephone-poles-a-high-wi...
    - awad 3y ago
      Check out this fun map curtesy of NYC who do a pretty good job exposing a lot of these type of data https://maps.nyc.gov/sandbox/poletop-finder/ https://maps.nyc.gov/sandbox/poletop-finder/
bbanyc 3y ago
The revenue cut for use of public streets is known as the "franchise fee." For the legacy cable companies, this was fixed by federal law in the 1980s at 5% of total revenue from cable television. For legacy phone companies, it varies by locality, but it's based on landline phone revenue. There's a federal law from the 1990s banning any such taxes or fees from being charged on internet service, so cities don't collect anything based on that.
- legitster 3y ago
  This may vary based on municipality, but franchise fees are usually in addition to specific pole attachment fees. Your franchise fee, for example, could buy permission to build your own poles. But it would not pay for you to put lines up on city-owned poles.

BugsJustFindMe 3y ago

> $20 per pole per year So low? That's approximately 0% of what the ISP makes from the homes served by that pole. I figured it would be more.

legitster 3y ago
I think you are exaggerating a bit. I have a pole in front of my house that just serves me and my neighbor. I pay $480 a year for Comcast, my neighbor gets CenturyLink. So the cost for the pole rental works out to about 5% of Comcast's service cost to me. Keep in mind some poles cost more than others (up to $250 according to the report), and that there are also hookup costs for the pole are ~$1000. I'm not saying ISPs are suffering here, but cities are not providing this infrastructure at a loss.
- BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
  > I have a pole in front of my house that just serves me and my neighbor Hah. We live in veeeeery different housing densities I guess. I was thinking this was NYC, which would be closer to mine. If it's the whole state then probably somewhere in between.
  - dmurray 3y ago
    Some reasonable sources [0] put the number of telephone poles in the US (175m) a little above the number of households (125m). [0] https://www.srperspective.com/post/telephone-poles-a-high-wire-act https://www.srperspective.com/post/telephone-poles-a-high-wi...
  - awad 3y ago
    Check out this fun map curtesy of NYC who do a pretty good job exposing a lot of these type of data https://maps.nyc.gov/sandbox/poletop-finder/ https://maps.nyc.gov/sandbox/poletop-finder/

bbanyc 3y ago

The revenue cut for use of public streets is known as the "franchise fee." For the legacy cable companies, this was fixed by federal law in the 1980s at 5% of total revenue from cable television. For legacy phone companies, it varies by locality, but it's based on landline phone revenue. There's a federal law from the 1990s banning any such taxes or fees from being charged on internet service, so cities don't collect anything based on that.

legitster 3y ago
This may vary based on municipality, but franchise fees are usually in addition to specific pole attachment fees. Your franchise fee, for example, could buy permission to build your own poles. But it would not pay for you to put lines up on city-owned poles.