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I think there's also the factor that the US government has already paid ISPs for last mile installations several times now - the line to everyone's house has be

by munk-a 3y ago

I think there's also the factor that the US government has already paid ISPs for last mile installations several times now - the line to everyone's house has been paid for... if an ISP diverted that money into stock buy backs I'm sure they can explain that to the court and instead be found to have fraudulently expended that subsidy.

toast0 3y ago
Some of that is one time cost, but you've got ongoing costs like pole maintenance and replacement, repairing breaks, trouble tickets, call centers, etc. I just don't think you can do that for $15/month, even if the capex of build out has already been paid for. Maaaybe if you had near 100% uptake, like landlines used to have. But no ISP is getting that. Most (certainly not all) people can choose between wired internet from a telco and a cable company, and 4g/5g is available in a lot of places, starlink in less dense places, and a lot of people don't need a separate home internet plan because the only networked device is their phone.
- awad 3y ago
  My understanding is there are already federal incentives to get less dense areas wired, though I'm not up to speed on the state of that - a quick Google tells me that USDA has loan and grants for it but unclear how well funded that is and how that would impact economics at $15 and $20 a month. Given that more than half of the population of NY is in NYC and Long Island, I would imagine that there is enough density and economic diversity at least downstate to make this at minimum cost neutral though this is total conjecture. As an aside, I remember the days of companies partnering with CLECs taking advantage of rural connectivity loopholes to create free conference calling services by billing larger upstream carriers and splitting that revenue with service providers, which was pretty clever.
- ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
  I think $180/year/person would more than cover what little maintenance is needed in non-disaster situations. I've maybe made a few phone support calls over the last 1 or 2 decades of broadband service. That would add up to $1,800 – $3,600 for 5 or 10 minutes worth of work. If it's cheaper to build out their own fiber and not have these plans, that is an option these companies have, too.
- matt-p 3y ago
  well wholesale copper line rental in the uk is under £10 a month, and that includes capex pay back. So it is possible for an internet service but it will probably not be enough to allow for much if any allocation of the capex payback. (and that is sort of OK if you are able to take a position that they would never of taken a full price service anyway. 1 dollar a month back to the capex of building out to that house is better than 0)

by munk-a 3y ago

toast0 3y ago

Some of that is one time cost, but you've got ongoing costs like pole maintenance and replacement, repairing breaks, trouble tickets, call centers, etc. I just don't think you can do that for $15/month, even if the capex of build out has already been paid for. Maaaybe if you had near 100% uptake, like landlines used to have. But no ISP is getting that. Most (certainly not all) people can choose between wired internet from a telco and a cable company, and 4g/5g is available in a lot of places, starlink in less dense places, and a lot of people don't need a separate home internet plan because the only networked device is their phone.

awad 3y ago
My understanding is there are already federal incentives to get less dense areas wired, though I'm not up to speed on the state of that - a quick Google tells me that USDA has loan and grants for it but unclear how well funded that is and how that would impact economics at $15 and $20 a month. Given that more than half of the population of NY is in NYC and Long Island, I would imagine that there is enough density and economic diversity at least downstate to make this at minimum cost neutral though this is total conjecture. As an aside, I remember the days of companies partnering with CLECs taking advantage of rural connectivity loopholes to create free conference calling services by billing larger upstream carriers and splitting that revenue with service providers, which was pretty clever.
ImPostingOnHN 3y ago
I think $180/year/person would more than cover what little maintenance is needed in non-disaster situations. I've maybe made a few phone support calls over the last 1 or 2 decades of broadband service. That would add up to $1,800 – $3,600 for 5 or 10 minutes worth of work. If it's cheaper to build out their own fiber and not have these plans, that is an option these companies have, too.
matt-p 3y ago
well wholesale copper line rental in the uk is under £10 a month, and that includes capex pay back. So it is possible for an internet service but it will probably not be enough to allow for much if any allocation of the capex payback. (and that is sort of OK if you are able to take a position that they would never of taken a full price service anyway. 1 dollar a month back to the capex of building out to that house is better than 0)