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"I'm not even counting the various federal agricultural subisides and trade protections." This was the main part I was talking about. The only way most farms g

"I'm not even counting the various federal agricultural subisides and trade protections." This was the main part I was talking about. The only way most farms get by is due to subsidies. There aren't many trade protections that I'm aware of. For example, honey is completely undercut by overseas sources, organic labeling is based on the production site regulations which can be less strict than domestically, we can't export most pork due to ratraphine use, etc. Remove the protections and rhe industry collapses. This is the odd man out when it comes to politics as it's something supported by both sides. Cost of living is too high in the US to be able to export to many nations. The major consumers would look to the cheaper nations before us, leading to strict export controls, further supporting price increases. We saw a bit about this with the wheat export restrictions and famine fears in some countries. The water allocations should be fixed. It's possible that eliminating crops not suitable for the area could be another fix (rice and almonds) without having to dive too much into the allocation side.

JoeAltmaier 3y ago
Not a lot of subsidies. Certainly just rhetoric to talk about 'most farms'. Despite the rhetoric of "preserving the family farm," the vast majority of farmers do not benefit from federal farm subsidy programs and most of the subsidies go to the largest and most financially secure farm operations. Small operators can participate in crop insurance. But they pay for that, just like you and me.
- giantg2 3y ago
  You do realize crop insurance is actually subsidized by the Feds right? Yes, individuals still pay, but the feds cover a portion of the premiums. Commodity market price controls are a form of subsidization. Yes a lot of the money goes to the biggest farms. There are some programs specifically for smaller operations too. There are also state level grants, programs, and subsidies in most states. There are even programs for distressed loans.
  - JoeAltmaier 3y ago
    So is most insurance, subsidized. A big disaster, federal assistance comes out - FEMA etc. Billions. The better part of a trillion in the last decade. The existence of small programs is true. But negligible in big picture - one or two pennies from the pocket of the consumer annually.
    - giantg2 3y ago
      Generally, FEMA is not an insurance program, one does not pay premiums through them, and the uses of the money are restrictive compared to regular insurance. "one or two pennies from the pocket of the consumer annually." Small producers take about 10% of commodity crop subsidies (not counting other types), which is about $1B per year. So no, not pennies per person. A better measure would be on a per acre basis.
      - JoeAltmaier 3y ago
        Failure of insurance to span pervasive damage results in federal assistance in the form of FEMA loans etc. Three or four hundred billions of dollars in the last ten years. I used them as an example of how normal insurance doesn't cover disaster, and it costs us all dearly. I had the small producer at 1%. I'll have to look again.
        giantg2 3y ago
        The numbers vary depending on the accounting. Most of the articles are focusing on a single aspect, commodity crop pricing, crop insurance, or even state-level programs. Then it depends on what size you're drawing the line for small vs large (is it even acreage based or are they using revenue, etc). At least in my experience, a lot of small farms are taking advantage of state-level programs, equipment grants, etc more than stuff like the CCC (which is more an indirect benefit to the small producers, but where a lot of the money goes). The equipment grants/loans can be tricky since you may only need one every decade or so, so it's not showing up in every year's reporting. For example, the dairy farm down the street recieved an environmental grant (state level I believe) for manure processing equiptment and lagoon. They are a medium sized operation - family run, under 200 acres, under 200 cows. Without the grant they couldnt afford the equiptment and they'd be closed down. I know several small farms that take advantage of wildlife/environmental/price-control crop programs where they make more money - no need get insurance since it's not for harvest, no need for fertilizer, etc. But of course what's really making ends meet for the small farms is that someone in the family needs a "real" job for a stable base income and health benefits.

JoeAltmaier 3y ago

Not a lot of subsidies. Certainly just rhetoric to talk about 'most farms'. Despite the rhetoric of "preserving the family farm," the vast majority of farmers do not benefit from federal farm subsidy programs and most of the subsidies go to the largest and most financially secure farm operations. Small operators can participate in crop insurance. But they pay for that, just like you and me.

giantg2 3y ago
You do realize crop insurance is actually subsidized by the Feds right? Yes, individuals still pay, but the feds cover a portion of the premiums. Commodity market price controls are a form of subsidization. Yes a lot of the money goes to the biggest farms. There are some programs specifically for smaller operations too. There are also state level grants, programs, and subsidies in most states. There are even programs for distressed loans.
- JoeAltmaier 3y ago
  So is most insurance, subsidized. A big disaster, federal assistance comes out - FEMA etc. Billions. The better part of a trillion in the last decade. The existence of small programs is true. But negligible in big picture - one or two pennies from the pocket of the consumer annually.
  - giantg2 3y ago
    Generally, FEMA is not an insurance program, one does not pay premiums through them, and the uses of the money are restrictive compared to regular insurance. "one or two pennies from the pocket of the consumer annually." Small producers take about 10% of commodity crop subsidies (not counting other types), which is about $1B per year. So no, not pennies per person. A better measure would be on a per acre basis.
    - JoeAltmaier 3y ago
      Failure of insurance to span pervasive damage results in federal assistance in the form of FEMA loans etc. Three or four hundred billions of dollars in the last ten years. I used them as an example of how normal insurance doesn't cover disaster, and it costs us all dearly. I had the small producer at 1%. I'll have to look again.
      - giantg2 3y ago
        The numbers vary depending on the accounting. Most of the articles are focusing on a single aspect, commodity crop pricing, crop insurance, or even state-level programs. Then it depends on what size you're drawing the line for small vs large (is it even acreage based or are they using revenue, etc). At least in my experience, a lot of small farms are taking advantage of state-level programs, equipment grants, etc more than stuff like the CCC (which is more an indirect benefit to the small producers, but where a lot of the money goes). The equipment grants/loans can be tricky since you may only need one every decade or so, so it's not showing up in every year's reporting. For example, the dairy farm down the street recieved an environmental grant (state level I believe) for manure processing equiptment and lagoon. They are a medium sized operation - family run, under 200 acres, under 200 cows. Without the grant they couldnt afford the equiptment and they'd be closed down. I know several small farms that take advantage of wildlife/environmental/price-control crop programs where they make more money - no need get insurance since it's not for harvest, no need for fertilizer, etc. But of course what's really making ends meet for the small farms is that someone in the family needs a "real" job for a stable base income and health benefits.