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The problem is systemic, it's not about knowing more or monitoring. It's finding an economic system that is both competitive compared to capitalism and market e

The problem is systemic, it's not about knowing more or monitoring. It's finding an economic system that is both competitive compared to capitalism and market economy, and free of emissions. Which come down to not using oil and gas on one hand, and having health and goods on the other hand. And you can't get the second without using the first.

V__ 2y ago
Would help a lot if externalities would have to be priced in as soon as they are known.
- RGamma 2y ago
  This will also require deprogramming the consumerist mind set. Otherwise everyone's gonna be "waaah they're taking away my yearly line cruises and SUV". While we're doing that, we could end bullshit jobs working for nonsense goals as well. Also we're inheriting the infrastructure that has nonsustainability baked in and is not easy to roll back. E.g. the US with it's massive car dependence has its work cut out for it. Some grandfathering has to happen or pricing in externalities will be too brutal and end the system that could enforce it.
torpfactory 2y ago
"Which come down to not using oil and gas on one hand, and having health and goods on the other hand. And you can't get the second without using the first." I think that very much USED to be true but is now definitely NOT the case. We can make the switch to complete renewables, or at least make a 90+% reduction in GHG intensity. Not quickly and not without short term cost but it is finally possible without bankrupting us. At this point we are fighting inertia and monied interests who would prefer the energy status quo. Hydrocarbon energy is wildly profitable and very convenient but we shouldn't act like it's the only game in town any more.
- logtempo 2y ago
  that's not what this chart is suggesting. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-energy-substitution?time=1985..latest https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-energy-substitutio...

V__ 2y ago

Would help a lot if externalities would have to be priced in as soon as they are known.

RGamma 2y ago
This will also require deprogramming the consumerist mind set. Otherwise everyone's gonna be "waaah they're taking away my yearly line cruises and SUV". While we're doing that, we could end bullshit jobs working for nonsense goals as well. Also we're inheriting the infrastructure that has nonsustainability baked in and is not easy to roll back. E.g. the US with it's massive car dependence has its work cut out for it. Some grandfathering has to happen or pricing in externalities will be too brutal and end the system that could enforce it.

torpfactory 2y ago

"Which come down to not using oil and gas on one hand, and having health and goods on the other hand. And you can't get the second without using the first." I think that very much USED to be true but is now definitely NOT the case. We can make the switch to complete renewables, or at least make a 90+% reduction in GHG intensity. Not quickly and not without short term cost but it is finally possible without bankrupting us. At this point we are fighting inertia and monied interests who would prefer the energy status quo. Hydrocarbon energy is wildly profitable and very convenient but we shouldn't act like it's the only game in town any more.

logtempo 2y ago
that's not what this chart is suggesting. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-energy-substitution?time=1985..latest https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-energy-substitutio...