5 ms·

If Tesla hadn't named their driver assistance system "Autopilot" they would have saved so much trouble (not to mention lives).

lukan 2y ago
Autopilots in planes maintain altitude and speed and no landing or evasion. But full self driving was a broken promise.
- spamizbad 2y ago
  Sure, but there's an expectation that an automobile will be driven by virtually any adult that can pass a basic driving test. An airplane requires extensive training and certification.
- bombcar 2y ago
  Autoland exists - but it's potentially more like calling a trim wheel "autopilot" or an ILS system "autoland".
- kwhitefoot 2y ago
  Autopilot is not FSD.
- wil421 2y ago
  [deleted]
- ahahahahah 2y ago
  That's a really dumb argument when the research exists explaining exactly how people understand autopilot in the context of cars.
tgma 2y ago
I can see you can potentially argue (unsuccessfully IMHO) that it is marketing fraud in inducing purchases of the vehicle, but I don't buy it that a single person who actually owns the vehicle and have driven on Autopilot for more than a week is confused by the abilities of the system because the name is Autopilot. People text and drive _all the time_ on their ICE carriages without Autopilot too. Thus the claim that renaming it would have saved a life, let alone lives, is simply sensationalism.
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  Yeah, except of those people who have bought (at a significant price) those features, and understand that they're nowhere near their "aspirational" goals (When Tesla has been called out by the SEC and DMVs for some of Musk's more absurd statements, the company has quietly whispered to them "these are aspirational goals", and in one case, to the California DMV, "Musk's visionary statements are not reflective of engineering reality")... a significant portion of them still allow their car to do stupid/dangerous/risky things, because they believe that the car learns and adapts from this, and sends this data back to Tesla for further learning. Which it doesn't, as this article states. Those drivers are "it's okay if I run the occasional stop sign because it'll help my Tesla stop at the next one", "it's okay if I do XYZ..." when it won't do anything except put others (and themselves) at risk.
  - tgma 2y ago
    The aspirational claims are not about Autopilot, but FSD (and I agree that having people pay for FSD in 2015 is borderline fraudulent. It is a consumer protection matter, not a safety matter.) Again, the statements to California DMV or SEC or Congress is one thing. Whether the owner is confused by the abilities of their vehicle post purchase and driving for a week is a distinct matter. > Those drivers are "it's okay if I run the occasional stop sign because it'll help my Tesla stop at the next one I think this is simply a made-up and ridiculous characterization. People break traffic laws all the time because they are selfish and it is convenient for themselves. Tesla drivers are no different. Have you seen a single consumer, not an employee, who does this for training data for Tesla?
    - Veserv 2y ago
      They are objectively, literally fatally confused as to the abilities of their vehicles. Tesla's systems, or any other ADAS for that matter, can not be safely used without a fully attentive driver and Tesla's system in particular further demands that you must keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times. Deliberately and intentionally operating such a system without your full attention because you think it will safely drive you without your attention is like shoving your hand into a spinning saw blade. That is not to say that everybody who is injured by a spinning saw blade or by inattentive use indicates a product is fundamentally unsafe. Many people just inherently display inappropriate caution and most become complacent with dangerous devices through repeated "safe use". For a spinning saw blade, they miscalculate the risk and overestimate the safety mechanism, but they are not confused about that fact that inserting their hand into a spinning saw blade is a very bad idea. If Tesla ADAS operators only overestimated their attention then it would be comparable to a spinning saw blade, useful but dangerous. However, Tesla marketing aggressively misrepresents the capabilities of their systems and the Tesla ADAS operators routinely believe the marketing that it can safely drive without their attention; they believe you should insert your hand into a spinning saw blade and many people have literally died as a result. That is textbook fatal confusion about the abilities of their vehicles.
fyrn_ 2y ago
It was the name _and_ constant absured marketing claims, not just the name
1-6 2y ago
To be fair, I don’t think Autopilot is well defined in any governing literature. We’re in the wild west.
stetrain 2y ago
The underlying issue isn't the name, it's the mismatch between marketing claims, actual performance, and what it lets you "get away" with. They released a system that will engage on almost any road and provides a firm steering force that will steer without driver interaction. Unlike some competing systems, they did not include dedicated hardware for monitoring driver attention, or restrict operation to separated highways. Ever since, they have been trying to layer on increasingly annoying nags to jiggle the wheel, or use the low res interior camera to try to determine driver attention, to try to work backwards from the fact that they didn't provide for proper driver monitoring to begin with or build a system that discourages zoning out.
dzhiurgis 2y ago
Not sure. Anyone who used it for a mere hour would understand its limitations immediately. Otherwise - all systems can be abused.

lukan 2y ago

Autopilots in planes maintain altitude and speed and no landing or evasion. But full self driving was a broken promise.

spamizbad 2y ago
Sure, but there's an expectation that an automobile will be driven by virtually any adult that can pass a basic driving test. An airplane requires extensive training and certification.
bombcar 2y ago
Autoland exists - but it's potentially more like calling a trim wheel "autopilot" or an ILS system "autoland".
kwhitefoot 2y ago
Autopilot is not FSD.
wil421 2y ago
[deleted]
ahahahahah 2y ago
That's a really dumb argument when the research exists explaining exactly how people understand autopilot in the context of cars.

tgma 2y ago

I can see you can potentially argue (unsuccessfully IMHO) that it is marketing fraud in inducing purchases of the vehicle, but I don't buy it that a single person who actually owns the vehicle and have driven on Autopilot for more than a week is confused by the abilities of the system because the name is Autopilot. People text and drive _all the time_ on their ICE carriages without Autopilot too. Thus the claim that renaming it would have saved a life, let alone lives, is simply sensationalism.

FireBeyond 2y ago
Yeah, except of those people who have bought (at a significant price) those features, and understand that they're nowhere near their "aspirational" goals (When Tesla has been called out by the SEC and DMVs for some of Musk's more absurd statements, the company has quietly whispered to them "these are aspirational goals", and in one case, to the California DMV, "Musk's visionary statements are not reflective of engineering reality")... a significant portion of them still allow their car to do stupid/dangerous/risky things, because they believe that the car learns and adapts from this, and sends this data back to Tesla for further learning. Which it doesn't, as this article states. Those drivers are "it's okay if I run the occasional stop sign because it'll help my Tesla stop at the next one", "it's okay if I do XYZ..." when it won't do anything except put others (and themselves) at risk.
- tgma 2y ago
  The aspirational claims are not about Autopilot, but FSD (and I agree that having people pay for FSD in 2015 is borderline fraudulent. It is a consumer protection matter, not a safety matter.) Again, the statements to California DMV or SEC or Congress is one thing. Whether the owner is confused by the abilities of their vehicle post purchase and driving for a week is a distinct matter. > Those drivers are "it's okay if I run the occasional stop sign because it'll help my Tesla stop at the next one I think this is simply a made-up and ridiculous characterization. People break traffic laws all the time because they are selfish and it is convenient for themselves. Tesla drivers are no different. Have you seen a single consumer, not an employee, who does this for training data for Tesla?
  - Veserv 2y ago
    They are objectively, literally fatally confused as to the abilities of their vehicles. Tesla's systems, or any other ADAS for that matter, can not be safely used without a fully attentive driver and Tesla's system in particular further demands that you must keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times. Deliberately and intentionally operating such a system without your full attention because you think it will safely drive you without your attention is like shoving your hand into a spinning saw blade. That is not to say that everybody who is injured by a spinning saw blade or by inattentive use indicates a product is fundamentally unsafe. Many people just inherently display inappropriate caution and most become complacent with dangerous devices through repeated "safe use". For a spinning saw blade, they miscalculate the risk and overestimate the safety mechanism, but they are not confused about that fact that inserting their hand into a spinning saw blade is a very bad idea. If Tesla ADAS operators only overestimated their attention then it would be comparable to a spinning saw blade, useful but dangerous. However, Tesla marketing aggressively misrepresents the capabilities of their systems and the Tesla ADAS operators routinely believe the marketing that it can safely drive without their attention; they believe you should insert your hand into a spinning saw blade and many people have literally died as a result. That is textbook fatal confusion about the abilities of their vehicles.

fyrn_ 2y ago

It was the name _and_ constant absured marketing claims, not just the name

1-6 2y ago

To be fair, I don’t think Autopilot is well defined in any governing literature. We’re in the wild west.

stetrain 2y ago

The underlying issue isn't the name, it's the mismatch between marketing claims, actual performance, and what it lets you "get away" with. They released a system that will engage on almost any road and provides a firm steering force that will steer without driver interaction. Unlike some competing systems, they did not include dedicated hardware for monitoring driver attention, or restrict operation to separated highways. Ever since, they have been trying to layer on increasingly annoying nags to jiggle the wheel, or use the low res interior camera to try to determine driver attention, to try to work backwards from the fact that they didn't provide for proper driver monitoring to begin with or build a system that discourages zoning out.

dzhiurgis 2y ago

Not sure. Anyone who used it for a mere hour would understand its limitations immediately. Otherwise - all systems can be abused.