21 ms·

> ... the so-called bug for us, the public, is most likely a feature crafted by them, Canonical folks. > Otherwise, Ubuntu developer won't say that they "didn'

> ... the so-called bug for us, the public, is most likely a feature crafted by them, Canonical folks. > Otherwise, Ubuntu developer won't say that they "didn't have capacity to work on it". What the developer actually said was they didn't have the capacity to work on it for that version, but that it would be a priority for the next cycle. Did they not read the second part of that sentence, or are they choosing to ignore it, or what?

superkuh 3y ago
Right, but this is an OS breaking bug. Not a desired superfluous feature. Not having capacity to work on it means they are okay with releasing a distro with OS breaking bugs; or lying. Either is a bad look.
- constantcrying 3y ago
  >Right, but this is an OS breaking bug No, it isn't. It is breaking a feature you should never use and which is actually better left broken. They should just fix it by giving a message to the user that he shouldn't do that.
  - superkuh 3y ago
    The idea that people should only install software from a walled garden is absurd. It is a smartphone-ism (re: sideloading doublespeak). I can't imagine only being able to run the few software packages available in repos. Probably a fourth of my userspace on a typical linux desktop is self compiled or debs from random places on the net.
    - constantcrying 3y ago
      Terrible way to run a system. Most distro contain all the software you need in repos. Package managers are some of the greatest thing about smartphones. It is trivial to install and keep up to date all your software. They also aren't walled gardens at all. You are free to add repos all you want. Also smartphone package manager precede desktop package managers. It just was a good idea.
      - rc00 3y ago
        > Also smartphone package manager precede desktop package managers. It just was a good idea. Synaptic existed over 20 years ago[1]. This is before the first smartphone ever existed. 1. https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~synaptic-developers/synaptic/trunk/files https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~synaptic-developers/synaptic/t...
        constantcrying 3y ago
        Sorry, I meant to write the opposite. The other way makes no sense.
      - superkuh 3y ago
        > Most distro contain all the software you need in repos. Most software in the world is not packaged but I get that everyone has different tastes and ways of doing things. It's like how I'm fine with my car's defaults; it takes me places, I don't change it or add parts (like most people don't). My computers I do customize though.
        constantcrying 3y ago
        Sure and if you know what you are doing and accept the risks its a fine thing to do, but it isn't a good idea to actually encourage that behavior in new users. The argument I have seen here that it is the way new users want to install software, so that should be the way to do it. But encouraging users towards bad behavior, because you don't want to force them to learn anything new, is completely unhelpful. If the user doesn't accept that he has to learn the new Operating System and has to find alternatives to his software (like ditching chrome for chromium) he will never be happy.
    - diffeomorphism 3y ago
      Then you should add repos not downloaded files.
Twirrim 3y ago
I think you missed some of the context/point behind the reference. The bug was reported when it first came up in 23.10, a non-LTS release. The previous non-LTS release is a final proving ground for an LTS release. They had an opportunity to fix it from 23.10 until the release of their next LTS, and chose not to. There won't be an LTS for 2 more years, so this regression is likely stuck there (It worked fine prior to 23.10, even supported snaps). If Canonical hadn't been forcing snaps down everyone's throat for the past several years, and continually ignoring all of the negative feedback they get over it, it might have been a different story, but on the back of everything we've seen from them over the years, it reeks of "deliberate choice", and it's really hard not to see this as a deliberate break rather than accidental. Canonical have unfortunately reached trust thermocline stage with everything related to snaps.
- curt15 3y ago
  It's almost like they're slowly increasing the friction for other packaging formats (flatpak, deb) other than snaps. Bubblewrap, the sandboxing tool for Flatpak, is broken out of the box on 24.04: https://etbe.coker.com.au/2024/04/24/ubuntu-24-04-bubblewrap/ https://etbe.coker.com.au/2024/04/24/ubuntu-24-04-bubblewrap...

superkuh 3y ago

Right, but this is an OS breaking bug. Not a desired superfluous feature. Not having capacity to work on it means they are okay with releasing a distro with OS breaking bugs; or lying. Either is a bad look.

constantcrying 3y ago
>Right, but this is an OS breaking bug No, it isn't. It is breaking a feature you should never use and which is actually better left broken. They should just fix it by giving a message to the user that he shouldn't do that.
- superkuh 3y ago
  The idea that people should only install software from a walled garden is absurd. It is a smartphone-ism (re: sideloading doublespeak). I can't imagine only being able to run the few software packages available in repos. Probably a fourth of my userspace on a typical linux desktop is self compiled or debs from random places on the net.
  - constantcrying 3y ago
    Terrible way to run a system. Most distro contain all the software you need in repos. Package managers are some of the greatest thing about smartphones. It is trivial to install and keep up to date all your software. They also aren't walled gardens at all. You are free to add repos all you want. Also smartphone package manager precede desktop package managers. It just was a good idea.
    - rc00 3y ago
      > Also smartphone package manager precede desktop package managers. It just was a good idea. Synaptic existed over 20 years ago[1]. This is before the first smartphone ever existed. 1. https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~synaptic-developers/synaptic/trunk/files https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~synaptic-developers/synaptic/t...
      - constantcrying 3y ago
        Sorry, I meant to write the opposite. The other way makes no sense.
    - superkuh 3y ago
      > Most distro contain all the software you need in repos. Most software in the world is not packaged but I get that everyone has different tastes and ways of doing things. It's like how I'm fine with my car's defaults; it takes me places, I don't change it or add parts (like most people don't). My computers I do customize though.
      - constantcrying 3y ago
        Sure and if you know what you are doing and accept the risks its a fine thing to do, but it isn't a good idea to actually encourage that behavior in new users. The argument I have seen here that it is the way new users want to install software, so that should be the way to do it. But encouraging users towards bad behavior, because you don't want to force them to learn anything new, is completely unhelpful. If the user doesn't accept that he has to learn the new Operating System and has to find alternatives to his software (like ditching chrome for chromium) he will never be happy.
  - diffeomorphism 3y ago
    Then you should add repos not downloaded files.

Twirrim 3y ago

I think you missed some of the context/point behind the reference. The bug was reported when it first came up in 23.10, a non-LTS release. The previous non-LTS release is a final proving ground for an LTS release. They had an opportunity to fix it from 23.10 until the release of their next LTS, and chose not to. There won't be an LTS for 2 more years, so this regression is likely stuck there (It worked fine prior to 23.10, even supported snaps). If Canonical hadn't been forcing snaps down everyone's throat for the past several years, and continually ignoring all of the negative feedback they get over it, it might have been a different story, but on the back of everything we've seen from them over the years, it reeks of "deliberate choice", and it's really hard not to see this as a deliberate break rather than accidental. Canonical have unfortunately reached trust thermocline stage with everything related to snaps.

curt15 3y ago
It's almost like they're slowly increasing the friction for other packaging formats (flatpak, deb) other than snaps. Bubblewrap, the sandboxing tool for Flatpak, is broken out of the box on 24.04: https://etbe.coker.com.au/2024/04/24/ubuntu-24-04-bubblewrap/ https://etbe.coker.com.au/2024/04/24/ubuntu-24-04-bubblewrap...