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Apple's refusal to make RAM upgradeable is something that many have tolerated because of the other strengths of the hardware platform. But it is not without co

Apple's refusal to make RAM upgradeable is something that many have tolerated because of the other strengths of the hardware platform. But it is not without cost to Apple's brand reputation. It is painful to upgrade to a new machine when a few hundred dollar RAM upgrade would have given the old machine 1-2 years of additional useful life. Some customers don't realize this, but for those who do it makes Apple seem greedy and not concerned with value or the investment of the customer's dollars in its ecosystem. Apple sells under-powered machines to naive customers who then need to upgrade sooner. It's really sad that one of the great tech companies employs used car salesman style deception into its pricing structure and aims it at the least informed of its customer base (grandmas and people who can barely afford it anyway). This is why people hate capitalism, but it's actually greed and shortsightedness that they should hate. Competition should make tactics like this unsustainable, but Apple has a lof of entrenched advantage and employs many questionable forms of anticompetitive behavior to create lock-in. Overall it's bad citicenship due to tremendous greed.

brandon272 2y ago
The lower amount of RAM enables more people to get into Macbooks at a lower cost instead of choosing less expensive alternatives that will only last a few years.
- resters 2y ago
  Non-upgradeable RAM and SSD. Why? To save $1 in manufacture or 1mm in case height?
  - brandon272 2y ago
    I completely agree - would love for the RAM and SSD to be upgradeable.
- raverbashing 2y ago
  "at a lower cost" except the actual cost difference between 8GB and 16GB is less than 50 dollars (and that's being very generous) Edit: checking Mouser, 16GB (the actual DRAM chip) costs between $15 and $25
  - brandon272 2y ago
    Cost to the consumer, not Apple.
    - rasz 2y ago
      Cost to consumer of 8GB DDR5 is $25
      - brandon272 2y ago
        Not when you buy it from Apple.
layer8 2y ago
Lack of upgradability also damages Apple’s credibility with regard to their environmental aspirations.
spott 2y ago
> Apple's refusal to make RAM upgradeable I'm not sure they can make RAM upgradeable at this point and still keep their unified memory. If you look[0], they have the memory under the heat spreader, butted right up next to the SOC, and my impression is that this is what allows them to get that nice memory bandwidth. [0]: https://www.ifixit.com/News/46884/m1-macbook-teardowns-something-old-something-new https://www.ifixit.com/News/46884/m1-macbook-teardowns-somet...
- resters 2y ago
  Perhaps true of recent models. However RAM-starved machine upgraded with slightly slower (but still fast) additional RAM would still be much better value in performance per additional dollar than a whole new machine.
- layer8 2y ago
  LCAMM2 should be fast enough: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/ddr5/micron-unveils-lpcamm2-bringing-lpddr5x-to-smaller-form-factor-memory-modules https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/ddr5/micron-unvei... And they could combine onboard unified RAM with a slightly slower non-unified expandable RAM slot. There is some precedent for such configurations in computer history.
- init2null 2y ago
  It would be worth to add a slow RAM slot or two to use it purely as an SSD cache or a substitute for swap. There's no need to eliminate the unified memory in the process of adding upgrade options.
- rasz 2y ago
  They do it this way because it cuts manufacturing cost. Its cheaper to use POP ram when ram upgradeability is not in your design constraints. Apple even has a patent (garbage one, describes something obvious) for second non POP slightly slower ram channel. https://www.techpowerup.com/277760/apple-patents-multi-level-hybrid-memory-subsystem https://www.techpowerup.com/277760/apple-patents-multi-level... "With two types of DRAM forming the memory system, one of which may be optimized for bandwidth and the other of which may be optimized for capacity, the goals of bandwidth increase and capacity increase may both be realized, in some embodiments," They are sitting on a solution while extracting value while market bears it.

brandon272 2y ago

The lower amount of RAM enables more people to get into Macbooks at a lower cost instead of choosing less expensive alternatives that will only last a few years.

resters 2y ago
Non-upgradeable RAM and SSD. Why? To save $1 in manufacture or 1mm in case height?
- brandon272 2y ago
  I completely agree - would love for the RAM and SSD to be upgradeable.
raverbashing 2y ago
"at a lower cost" except the actual cost difference between 8GB and 16GB is less than 50 dollars (and that's being very generous) Edit: checking Mouser, 16GB (the actual DRAM chip) costs between $15 and $25
- brandon272 2y ago
  Cost to the consumer, not Apple.
  - rasz 2y ago
    Cost to consumer of 8GB DDR5 is $25
    - brandon272 2y ago
      Not when you buy it from Apple.

layer8 2y ago

Lack of upgradability also damages Apple’s credibility with regard to their environmental aspirations.

spott 2y ago

> Apple's refusal to make RAM upgradeable I'm not sure they can make RAM upgradeable at this point and still keep their unified memory. If you look[0], they have the memory under the heat spreader, butted right up next to the SOC, and my impression is that this is what allows them to get that nice memory bandwidth. [0]: https://www.ifixit.com/News/46884/m1-macbook-teardowns-something-old-something-new https://www.ifixit.com/News/46884/m1-macbook-teardowns-somet...

resters 2y ago
Perhaps true of recent models. However RAM-starved machine upgraded with slightly slower (but still fast) additional RAM would still be much better value in performance per additional dollar than a whole new machine.
layer8 2y ago
LCAMM2 should be fast enough: https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/ddr5/micron-unveils-lpcamm2-bringing-lpddr5x-to-smaller-form-factor-memory-modules https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/ddr5/micron-unvei... And they could combine onboard unified RAM with a slightly slower non-unified expandable RAM slot. There is some precedent for such configurations in computer history.
init2null 2y ago
It would be worth to add a slow RAM slot or two to use it purely as an SSD cache or a substitute for swap. There's no need to eliminate the unified memory in the process of adding upgrade options.
rasz 2y ago
They do it this way because it cuts manufacturing cost. Its cheaper to use POP ram when ram upgradeability is not in your design constraints. Apple even has a patent (garbage one, describes something obvious) for second non POP slightly slower ram channel. https://www.techpowerup.com/277760/apple-patents-multi-level-hybrid-memory-subsystem https://www.techpowerup.com/277760/apple-patents-multi-level... "With two types of DRAM forming the memory system, one of which may be optimized for bandwidth and the other of which may be optimized for capacity, the goals of bandwidth increase and capacity increase may both be realized, in some embodiments," They are sitting on a solution while extracting value while market bears it.