5 ms·

We waste like 1/3rd of the food and half of the planet is overweight/obese, I think we could slow down a bit tbh

someplaceguy 3y ago
> half of the planet is overweight/obese, I think we could slow down a bit tbh I don't think half of the planet is overweight or obese due to meat consumption. If anything, take away the meat (or make it more expensive) and it'd probably lead to even more obesity.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  The meat is consumed deep friend and slathered with sugar (barbecue sauce is usually pretty much all sugar). But also, dairy products can be thrown in this discussion too.
- triceratops 3y ago
  Middle Ages peasants ate meat rarely. They were not obese.
  - someplaceguy 3y ago
    They also didn't eat a lot of fries, sugared beverages, ultra-processed food, etc... which is easily available nowadays and likely to be consumed when one doesn't feel satiated (e.g. due to meat consumption). That's not to say that there aren't alternatives to meat that also satiate and are nutritious, but most people don't consider them to be equally delicious and therefore they are not as likely to be consumed if meat isn't available.
    - triceratops 3y ago
      That means the obesity isn't due to meat or a lack of meat, per se. It's the diet outside of the meat. > fries, sugared beverages...which is likely to be consumed when one doesn't feel satiated (e.g. due to meat consumption). You know what goes really well with a juicy hamburger or a steak? Crisp fries, and a cool, refreshing, tall glass of Coke (maybe not the Coke so much with a steak), or a frosty milkshake.
      - someplaceguy 3y ago
        > That means the obesity isn't due to meat or a lack of meat, per se. It's the diet outside of the meat. So... if you take the meat out what does that leave you with?
        triceratops 3y ago
        Who orders just fries and a Coke? People eat junk food because it tastes good. Period. Not because they didn't get enough meat or some BS like that. Meat-eaters eat fries. Vegetarians eat fries. Everyone eats fries. They're delicious. If you take the meat out there's a whole world of nutritious and delicious foods out there. You just have to broaden your culinary horizons. I'm not even a vegetarian or vegan, have no plans to be one, and I still recognize this.
        someplaceguy 3y ago
        > If you take the meat out there's a whole world of nutritious and delicious foods out there. But most people will not find, enjoy or choose food with both of those qualities, not to mention that they are a minority over what's commonly available -- and even if they are available, they'd probably become too expensive if consumption increased significantly. Most of the time they'd have to choose between "delicious foods" or "nutritious foods", but not both, and you know they'd choose the former. If you take out meat, you'll simply reduce the pool of available (good) choices. You'll have a strictly worse outcome than what you had before (except for the animals, admittedly).
        3y ago
  - mattmaroon 3y ago
    They also starved to death frequently, and died of a lot of diseases that we now survive easily, so by your logic, I should eat more meat.
    - triceratops 3y ago
      > They also starved to death frequently But they weren't obese. The person I was responded to claimed obesity is because of less meat. > and died of a lot of diseases that we now survive easily, so by your logic, I should eat more meat I didn't know you got your measles vaccine from a plate of pork chops. I got mine via a hypodermic needle, from a nurse who studied anatomy, biology, and germ theory for several years, and washed her hands.
- lm28469 3y ago
  All I'm saying is that if we're all eating so much to the point of killing ourselves surely we can eat a bit less of meat if it reduces pollution/water use/viral infections. It's not like eating meat multiple time a day or even every day was a pre requisite for human life. I don't remember last time I ate meat and I'm fitter than 90% of people I meet in my day to day life
mattmaroon 3y ago
Could: sure. Will: no. But even if we did, it would still be factory farming (though of course with fewer outbreaks and antibiotic resistance) with other things that people would find problematic for plenty of equally valid reasons. Also if anything, obesity would skyrocket. Meat isn’t the big cause of that, carbs are, and if you cut out meat you get more carbs. Most people gain weight when they go vegetarian.
- themk 3y ago
  This is a ridiculous claim. Vegans and vegetarians on average have lower BMI. Most diet intervention studies demonstrate a drop in BMI on vegetarian or vegan diets. Sure, avoid the highly refined carbs, like white flour and sugar, but substituting dairy and meat for nuts and legumes is going to only be an improvement for your health and the health of the planet.
  - mattmaroon 3y ago
    That’s not contradictory with what I said. I said that when people switch they gain weight. Vegans and vegetarians are more health conscious than non-vegans and vegetarians so you can’t compare them like that. It’s like when they said that Diet Coke makes you fat because the average Diet Coke drinker is fatter than the average Coke drinker. But it’s really just because skinny people don’t worry about drinking calories. Most people don’t switch from meat to nuts and legumes, they switch to baked goods. There is also no scientific evidence whatsoever that switching to plant-based diets is good for your health. You should read outlive by Dr. Peter Atilla. As he points out, the only thing we know for sure is too many calories is bad. For almost anything else, it’s impossible to tease out correlation from causation.

> half of the planet is overweight/obese, I think we could slow down a bit tbh I don't think half of the planet is overweight or obese due to meat consumption. If anything, take away the meat (or make it more expensive) and it'd probably lead to even more obesity.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
lotsofpulp 3y ago
The meat is consumed deep friend and slathered with sugar (barbecue sauce is usually pretty much all sugar). But also, dairy products can be thrown in this discussion too.
triceratops 3y ago
Middle Ages peasants ate meat rarely. They were not obese.
- someplaceguy 3y ago
  They also didn't eat a lot of fries, sugared beverages, ultra-processed food, etc... which is easily available nowadays and likely to be consumed when one doesn't feel satiated (e.g. due to meat consumption). That's not to say that there aren't alternatives to meat that also satiate and are nutritious, but most people don't consider them to be equally delicious and therefore they are not as likely to be consumed if meat isn't available.
  - triceratops 3y ago
    That means the obesity isn't due to meat or a lack of meat, per se. It's the diet outside of the meat. > fries, sugared beverages...which is likely to be consumed when one doesn't feel satiated (e.g. due to meat consumption). You know what goes really well with a juicy hamburger or a steak? Crisp fries, and a cool, refreshing, tall glass of Coke (maybe not the Coke so much with a steak), or a frosty milkshake.
    - someplaceguy 3y ago
      > That means the obesity isn't due to meat or a lack of meat, per se. It's the diet outside of the meat. So... if you take the meat out what does that leave you with?
      - triceratops 3y ago
        Who orders just fries and a Coke? People eat junk food because it tastes good. Period. Not because they didn't get enough meat or some BS like that. Meat-eaters eat fries. Vegetarians eat fries. Everyone eats fries. They're delicious. If you take the meat out there's a whole world of nutritious and delicious foods out there. You just have to broaden your culinary horizons. I'm not even a vegetarian or vegan, have no plans to be one, and I still recognize this.
        someplaceguy 3y ago
        > If you take the meat out there's a whole world of nutritious and delicious foods out there. But most people will not find, enjoy or choose food with both of those qualities, not to mention that they are a minority over what's commonly available -- and even if they are available, they'd probably become too expensive if consumption increased significantly. Most of the time they'd have to choose between "delicious foods" or "nutritious foods", but not both, and you know they'd choose the former. If you take out meat, you'll simply reduce the pool of available (good) choices. You'll have a strictly worse outcome than what you had before (except for the animals, admittedly).
        3y ago
- mattmaroon 3y ago
  They also starved to death frequently, and died of a lot of diseases that we now survive easily, so by your logic, I should eat more meat.
  - triceratops 3y ago
    > They also starved to death frequently But they weren't obese. The person I was responded to claimed obesity is because of less meat. > and died of a lot of diseases that we now survive easily, so by your logic, I should eat more meat I didn't know you got your measles vaccine from a plate of pork chops. I got mine via a hypodermic needle, from a nurse who studied anatomy, biology, and germ theory for several years, and washed her hands.
lm28469 3y ago
All I'm saying is that if we're all eating so much to the point of killing ourselves surely we can eat a bit less of meat if it reduces pollution/water use/viral infections. It's not like eating meat multiple time a day or even every day was a pre requisite for human life. I don't remember last time I ate meat and I'm fitter than 90% of people I meet in my day to day life

mattmaroon 3y ago

Could: sure. Will: no. But even if we did, it would still be factory farming (though of course with fewer outbreaks and antibiotic resistance) with other things that people would find problematic for plenty of equally valid reasons. Also if anything, obesity would skyrocket. Meat isn’t the big cause of that, carbs are, and if you cut out meat you get more carbs. Most people gain weight when they go vegetarian.

themk 3y ago
This is a ridiculous claim. Vegans and vegetarians on average have lower BMI. Most diet intervention studies demonstrate a drop in BMI on vegetarian or vegan diets. Sure, avoid the highly refined carbs, like white flour and sugar, but substituting dairy and meat for nuts and legumes is going to only be an improvement for your health and the health of the planet.
- mattmaroon 3y ago
  That’s not contradictory with what I said. I said that when people switch they gain weight. Vegans and vegetarians are more health conscious than non-vegans and vegetarians so you can’t compare them like that. It’s like when they said that Diet Coke makes you fat because the average Diet Coke drinker is fatter than the average Coke drinker. But it’s really just because skinny people don’t worry about drinking calories. Most people don’t switch from meat to nuts and legumes, they switch to baked goods. There is also no scientific evidence whatsoever that switching to plant-based diets is good for your health. You should read outlive by Dr. Peter Atilla. As he points out, the only thing we know for sure is too many calories is bad. For almost anything else, it’s impossible to tease out correlation from causation.