4 ms·

I think multiple display support has gone backwards on the Mac, in a way that’s representative of the platform and rather dispiriting. I remember 20 years ago

by gmac 2y ago

I think multiple display support has gone backwards on the Mac, in a way that’s representative of the platform and rather dispiriting. I remember 20 years ago a colleague pointing out that Apple had put a lot of work in to allow windows to seamlessly cross different monitors, even if the PPI and colour depth were different. At some point between then and now, they ripped that out: windows are now only ever shown on one display. I have similar feelings around other built-in features like Preview. I used to get the feeling that someone had really thought about these things, and then put in the effort to ensure 99% of use-cases were catered to. Now it seems that much of the time nobody has even bothered to ensure there are no regressions, and you’re lucky if even 80% of cases are supported.

lloeki 2y ago
> windows are now only ever shown on one display Untrue :D System Preferences > Desktop & Dock > Mission Control > Displays have separate Spaces > Off So why is it not allowing windows to overlap two displays when that setting is on? Because when it's on a) you can swap spaces independently on each screen and b) you can move individual spaces across displays. If you had overlapping windows, swapping Spaces or rearranging them would produce really weird results.
- blowski 2y ago
  I've just turned it off, and I still can't spread Safari over two displays. I'm on Sonoma, on an M3 Max, albeit using a third-party monitor.
  - krait 2y ago
    Hi - toggling that setting requires a re-login to get Spaces to stop interfering with productive work. The windows still really want to jump to a specific display.
- gmac 2y ago
  Oh: glad to hear that, if true. Thanks.
  - skunkworker 2y ago
    It is true. I’ve been doing multi monitor support on a M1/M3 pro for years now. Triple external monitors (2 off a dock and 1 displaylink). The older amd graphics cards took 10-15s to detect external monitors while the apple silicon chips take 1s.
- jerf 2y ago
  I think a nontrivial part of the problem here is that if you sit down to write out all the requirements, there really isn't a great solution. If you need to A: be able to use multiple spaces conveniently B: be able to drop back to one space as needed (laptop usage scenarios) C: try to remember previous locations of windows and D: generally work like a standard desktop, you've already hit some fundamental issues. I think the people complaining are probably in a situation where they've always got their particular monitor setup, but the exact same code still has to be able to handle all the situations while maintaining the standard desktop layout metaphors... which the observant will note had decades of development before multiple monitors were a serious concern, so there is a lot of promises that were made before that was a thing that have to try to be maintained. Plus you have to remember the window manager must decide where all windows go right now; it has no idea that the second monitor was just a bit slow to come up and will be around in another 2 or 3 seconds, it has no idea that you're just unplugging it to check the connection, etc. I think there just isn't a solution to this problem. You can move the mess from that part of the carpet to the other part, but someone's going to be annoyed, possibly everyone. On a tiling window manager I fairly seamlessly can drop multiple monitors in or out, because the paradigm drops a lot of promises the standard desktop makes, so consequently it can more fluidly move into situations that don't make sense for the standard desktop paradigm. But that's not a practical solution for an OS to deploy in 2024.
- ilyagr 2y ago
  I want to toggle this off, but if I do, making an app full-screen on one display makes the other displays turn black. This is too annoying for me. This is related to the "full-screen apps pretend they are their own space" Mac OS behavior. I wish the toggle turned that off too.
DonHopkins 2y ago
Back in the 80's my late friend Hugh Daniel showed off that feature on his Mac by plugging as many monitors side by side into it as he could, then he ran a "ruler" desk accessory and stretched it out horizontally across all the monitors, to measure how wide the were all combined. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Daniel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Daniel He also brilliantly took an old monitor and removed the cathode ray tube, and then took a hires photograph of the inside of the monitor without the tube, and then used that as his screen background! Definitely the coolest most brutalistically realistic skeuomorphic screen background ever, with your windows floating in front of the high voltage electronics inside your monitor. I don't know why Apple didn't make that the standard default screen background on their transparent iMacs. "They're IN the COMPUTER???" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_o_O7v1ews https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_o_O7v1ews "There must be an ON button somewhere... Did you press the Apple thing?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToIyDSRSN5g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToIyDSRSN5g "Wait! Hansel! Let's not lose our cool. Then we're no better than the machine."
- indymike 2y ago
  I need a 4k version of this now.
indymike 2y ago
> I think multiple display support has gone backwards on the Mac, in a way that’s representative of the platform and rather dispiriting. I think things have gotten worse as Apple silicon chips introduced limitations in how many displays can be plugged in, and MacOS has tried to have a better "maximized window" experience... Instead you get a new, unnecessary entire new windowing mode. You still need something like the awesome Magnet app have sane control of windows. And multidisplay is just a hot mess. Meanwhile over on my LG Gram running KDE Plasma, things are getting better. I've got four screens all different resoulutions and sizes working just fine with different zoom levels. Wayland + Plasma seems to work really really well... which is shocking and amazing.
hobs 2y ago
I still will never get over spaces going from vertical and horizontal to just horizontal, really shitty in comparison.

by gmac 2y ago

lloeki 2y ago

> windows are now only ever shown on one display Untrue :D System Preferences > Desktop & Dock > Mission Control > Displays have separate Spaces > Off So why is it not allowing windows to overlap two displays when that setting is on? Because when it's on a) you can swap spaces independently on each screen and b) you can move individual spaces across displays. If you had overlapping windows, swapping Spaces or rearranging them would produce really weird results.

blowski 2y ago
I've just turned it off, and I still can't spread Safari over two displays. I'm on Sonoma, on an M3 Max, albeit using a third-party monitor.
- krait 2y ago
  Hi - toggling that setting requires a re-login to get Spaces to stop interfering with productive work. The windows still really want to jump to a specific display.
gmac 2y ago
Oh: glad to hear that, if true. Thanks.
- skunkworker 2y ago
  It is true. I’ve been doing multi monitor support on a M1/M3 pro for years now. Triple external monitors (2 off a dock and 1 displaylink). The older amd graphics cards took 10-15s to detect external monitors while the apple silicon chips take 1s.
jerf 2y ago
I think a nontrivial part of the problem here is that if you sit down to write out all the requirements, there really isn't a great solution. If you need to A: be able to use multiple spaces conveniently B: be able to drop back to one space as needed (laptop usage scenarios) C: try to remember previous locations of windows and D: generally work like a standard desktop, you've already hit some fundamental issues. I think the people complaining are probably in a situation where they've always got their particular monitor setup, but the exact same code still has to be able to handle all the situations while maintaining the standard desktop layout metaphors... which the observant will note had decades of development before multiple monitors were a serious concern, so there is a lot of promises that were made before that was a thing that have to try to be maintained. Plus you have to remember the window manager must decide where all windows go right now; it has no idea that the second monitor was just a bit slow to come up and will be around in another 2 or 3 seconds, it has no idea that you're just unplugging it to check the connection, etc. I think there just isn't a solution to this problem. You can move the mess from that part of the carpet to the other part, but someone's going to be annoyed, possibly everyone. On a tiling window manager I fairly seamlessly can drop multiple monitors in or out, because the paradigm drops a lot of promises the standard desktop makes, so consequently it can more fluidly move into situations that don't make sense for the standard desktop paradigm. But that's not a practical solution for an OS to deploy in 2024.
ilyagr 2y ago
I want to toggle this off, but if I do, making an app full-screen on one display makes the other displays turn black. This is too annoying for me. This is related to the "full-screen apps pretend they are their own space" Mac OS behavior. I wish the toggle turned that off too.

DonHopkins 2y ago

Back in the 80's my late friend Hugh Daniel showed off that feature on his Mac by plugging as many monitors side by side into it as he could, then he ran a "ruler" desk accessory and stretched it out horizontally across all the monitors, to measure how wide the were all combined. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Daniel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Daniel He also brilliantly took an old monitor and removed the cathode ray tube, and then took a hires photograph of the inside of the monitor without the tube, and then used that as his screen background! Definitely the coolest most brutalistically realistic skeuomorphic screen background ever, with your windows floating in front of the high voltage electronics inside your monitor. I don't know why Apple didn't make that the standard default screen background on their transparent iMacs. "They're IN the COMPUTER???" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_o_O7v1ews https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_o_O7v1ews "There must be an ON button somewhere... Did you press the Apple thing?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToIyDSRSN5g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToIyDSRSN5g "Wait! Hansel! Let's not lose our cool. Then we're no better than the machine."

indymike 2y ago
I need a 4k version of this now.

indymike 2y ago

> I think multiple display support has gone backwards on the Mac, in a way that’s representative of the platform and rather dispiriting. I think things have gotten worse as Apple silicon chips introduced limitations in how many displays can be plugged in, and MacOS has tried to have a better "maximized window" experience... Instead you get a new, unnecessary entire new windowing mode. You still need something like the awesome Magnet app have sane control of windows. And multidisplay is just a hot mess. Meanwhile over on my LG Gram running KDE Plasma, things are getting better. I've got four screens all different resoulutions and sizes working just fine with different zoom levels. Wayland + Plasma seems to work really really well... which is shocking and amazing.

hobs 2y ago

I still will never get over spaces going from vertical and horizontal to just horizontal, really shitty in comparison.