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For the most part I have adopted the trope of 'the only way to win is not to play'. By that, I mean checkout of online life as much as possible. The issue is t

For the most part I have adopted the trope of 'the only way to win is not to play'. By that, I mean checkout of online life as much as possible. The issue is that if 95% of folks decide against building these systems of oppression, that 5% remaining will still build it. And then the other 95% will justify it as "If I don't, they will". The sign of moral corruption at work. And those that do it will always have a 'claim to virtue'. They are innovating this that and the other under the disguise of progress. The real question is, was it worth it? The weirdest part is that Richard Stallman essentially spelled it out in full back in the late 1980's and almost nobody listened.

qp11 2y ago
Its not weird. People have different needs. The needs of the cactus and the redwood are not the same. But they both can get effected if shared scarce resources are squandered. And Learning that takes time cause the cactus and the redwood are busy focused on their own needs. People are learning Attention is a scare shared resource. And once it get squandered at population scales, it effects everyone whether they are making bank or not. No one is going to escape learning that lesson.
aerojoe23 2y ago
Sadly you'll have to checkout of more than just "online" life if you want to avoid "corporations trying to watch and make money from everything we do." Newer model car's track your driving, and most manufactures sell it to insurance companies. I'm not sure I read it anywhere but I bet they sell your location data as well and not just driving habits. For the longest time stores have loyalty discount programs to track your purchasing behavior. The cellphone in your pocket...
- blackfawn 2y ago
  I've been looking into replacing a very old vehicle and it's super disheartening seeing all the telemetry and shady communication you have no control over on new vehicles. And it seems 100% across the board if you look at EVs. As appealing it might be to have an EV, the telemetry, snooping, forced updates, etc. are an immediate turnoff. I know a few people with EVs and it seems like I'm always hearing "the latest update broke X" or "all my settings changed again"
- VelesDude 2y ago
  The cellphone is the one that concerns me personally the most. Even then I have locked that down as much as is viable. No needless apps. Deifnetly no social media. But there is still just the fact a locked baseband processor, operating system that you cannot fully verify and that mobile towers literally need to vaguely track you to function. I also don't drive (never have) or have any loyalty programs. Only pay in cash unless forced otherwise. That said here is Australia some stores just use facial recognition - so that sort of defeats that a little. They paused it for a little while a few years back but I believe it is back in action now. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-15/choice-investigation-major-retailers-using-facial-recognition/101153384 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-15/choice-investigation-... I'm not saying everyone can do this, far from it, but I choose to live by example. Maybe show others that you can at least shift your wants slightly. You move towards the ideal of utopia but do not expect to arrive there.
blooalien 2y ago
> The weirdest part is that Richard Stallman essentially spelled it out in full back in the late 1980's and almost nobody listened. A lot of things were "spelled ... out in full" back in the 70's, 80's, and 90's that "almost nobody listened" to (and even actively harassed, ridiculed, and otherwise hated the people giving the warnings), and now you can't see or hear the news without seeing the inevitable consequences of that ignorance playing out "in real time". Yay, humans, for being the most "advanced" species in the Universe. \o/

qp11 2y ago

Its not weird. People have different needs. The needs of the cactus and the redwood are not the same. But they both can get effected if shared scarce resources are squandered. And Learning that takes time cause the cactus and the redwood are busy focused on their own needs. People are learning Attention is a scare shared resource. And once it get squandered at population scales, it effects everyone whether they are making bank or not. No one is going to escape learning that lesson.

aerojoe23 2y ago

Sadly you'll have to checkout of more than just "online" life if you want to avoid "corporations trying to watch and make money from everything we do." Newer model car's track your driving, and most manufactures sell it to insurance companies. I'm not sure I read it anywhere but I bet they sell your location data as well and not just driving habits. For the longest time stores have loyalty discount programs to track your purchasing behavior. The cellphone in your pocket...

blackfawn 2y ago
I've been looking into replacing a very old vehicle and it's super disheartening seeing all the telemetry and shady communication you have no control over on new vehicles. And it seems 100% across the board if you look at EVs. As appealing it might be to have an EV, the telemetry, snooping, forced updates, etc. are an immediate turnoff. I know a few people with EVs and it seems like I'm always hearing "the latest update broke X" or "all my settings changed again"
VelesDude 2y ago
The cellphone is the one that concerns me personally the most. Even then I have locked that down as much as is viable. No needless apps. Deifnetly no social media. But there is still just the fact a locked baseband processor, operating system that you cannot fully verify and that mobile towers literally need to vaguely track you to function. I also don't drive (never have) or have any loyalty programs. Only pay in cash unless forced otherwise. That said here is Australia some stores just use facial recognition - so that sort of defeats that a little. They paused it for a little while a few years back but I believe it is back in action now. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-15/choice-investigation-major-retailers-using-facial-recognition/101153384 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-15/choice-investigation-... I'm not saying everyone can do this, far from it, but I choose to live by example. Maybe show others that you can at least shift your wants slightly. You move towards the ideal of utopia but do not expect to arrive there.

blooalien 2y ago

> The weirdest part is that Richard Stallman essentially spelled it out in full back in the late 1980's and almost nobody listened. A lot of things were "spelled ... out in full" back in the 70's, 80's, and 90's that "almost nobody listened" to (and even actively harassed, ridiculed, and otherwise hated the people giving the warnings), and now you can't see or hear the news without seeing the inevitable consequences of that ignorance playing out "in real time". Yay, humans, for being the most "advanced" species in the Universe. \o/