6 ms·

Good. Prostitution should be legal and regulated to begin with. People are getting HIV at an alarming rate because the whole system is unregulated.

lupire 2y ago
HIV turned out to be easier to treat than prevent.
- hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
  Sort of. PrEP exists for high risk populations. For cures: Currently, it is if you're able and willing to wipe out your own bone marrow and able to find a compatible donor who's immune. 2 giant expensive and risky IF's. CRISPR personalized medicine may also work: https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/10/25/1082306/gene-editing-crispr-hiv-experiment/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/10/25/1082306/gene-edi...
  - huytersd 2y ago
    No one does that surgery unless you have very advanced lymphoma. It’s not a cure.
    - hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
      You're weaseling with the ambiguity of the word "cure". I already stated the extreme conditions that approach would require. It has resulted in deliberate, although incidental, cures several times. It was certainly a cure for them. CRISPR personalized approaches are more promising by precisely excising vDNA. There is no panacea here.
      - huytersd 2y ago
        Based on your username, I’m not sure if you have HIV but EBT 101 has begun human trials as of last year and we should find out how it turns out before the end of this year. It’s from the same team that was able to eliminate SIV from primates using the same techniques.
        hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
        Very cool! Thanks, but don't need it. (Actually a platelet donor.) I couldn't fit a whole AC/DC title into hn's restrictions, and it originally had something to do with electricity.
- huytersd 2y ago
  If treat means a lifetime of a much higher OI risk and a 2000% higher risk of cancer.
  - robocat 2y ago
    OI? Please expand acronyms: we're not all in your context.
    - huytersd 2y ago
      Opportunistic infections. TB is the number one killer of people with HIV that are medicated. Along with a host of other viruses, fungi and MRSAs. You might live for 30 years after contracting HIV but they’re going to be sick, medically expensive years.
hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
Raising HIV against prostitution is like bringing up animal cruelty for veganism: it's not really the most important of many overlapping concerns surrounding the issue. Anti-prostitution and anti-abortion laws in the US exist because evangelical Christian white supremacists are able to tell heathens what they can't do with their bodies and pass laws to force their views on other people. These come with the burdens of jail time in the case of prostitution or losing the ability to reproduce or one's life in the case of eliminating the possibility of emergency abortions. Most of America: "The Bible says..."
- WorkerBee28474 2y ago
  > evangelical Christian white supremacists Ah yes, the ol' reliable 'everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi' approach
  - yareal 2y ago
    I think they described the situation fairly? The folks who legislate against sex work tend to tick most of those boxes.
    - hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
      To be fair, there is real shade to throw at traditional neoliberal uppercase Democrats of the 90's-10's too: copying features of conservatism but then putting off most of the country with bicoastal elitism. The Clintons and Reagans were both out of touch and announced policy on issues without much community engagement. Sex work is legal and more-or-less regulated in most of the UK and Europe even where Le Pen-flavor nationalism is ascending in prevalence. The US has a special kind of polarized infighting and much more variance in rights and restrictions that the rest of the world. For example, if I were to say "I'm pro conceal carry guns for people who continue to show demonstrably sane and stable residents." this wouldn't fly in most of Europe or Australia, regardless of right or left party across the way except for perhaps the fringe far-right. That is to say: norms in America differ significantly from the rest of the world in sometimes disquieting ways to outsiders, due to enduring historical roots and political interests. Perhaps a compromise to placate the majority of Americans would be: "don't touch the right to bear arms in exchange for bodily autonomy and healthcare." The 1995 Oklahoma City bombing didn't happen in a vacuum. It was 100% homegrown terrorism that thrived and came to pass in a culture of government conspiracy theories, Waco, white nationalism, and failure to care for and reintegrate Gulf War vets. Chris Hedges wrote a book on the topic: American Fascists (2008). Excluding Jan 6th as different kind of event, that there hasn't been another domestic terrorism mass casualty event due to diligent work by law enforcement combined with a tinge of dumb luck.
yieldcrv 2y ago
I personally like the legal and regulated approach, specifically because it comes with routine worker testing and consumer protections and labor rights apparently sex workers like decriminalized, because non-compliance with the regulated regimes have so far been a parallel illegal system but I cant think of any industry we would listen to who answered “how about just a completely hands off decriminalized approach” if asked to choose between illegal, unregulated, legal and regulated I don’t think decriminalized comes with adequate consumer protection, and the problems with legalized systems can be addressed by fixing how non-compliance is penalized, and by providing incentives to join the regulated system instead of just penalties for not regarding trafficking, well keep prosecuting that. as labor trafficking. make more avenues of support for the laborer which is far easier with labor rights. what people find hardest to reconcile is the idea of giving up on preventing trafficking, nothing they support right now is doing that or capable of doing that while burdening everyone else.
throw_m239339 2y ago
This wasn't prostitution on trial, it was a bunch of pimps and human traffickers. Just because they "are just an app" doesn't change the nature of their crime. Not sure what your comment HIV has to do with anything either when it comes to that case.

lupire 2y ago

HIV turned out to be easier to treat than prevent.

hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
Sort of. PrEP exists for high risk populations. For cures: Currently, it is if you're able and willing to wipe out your own bone marrow and able to find a compatible donor who's immune. 2 giant expensive and risky IF's. CRISPR personalized medicine may also work: https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/10/25/1082306/gene-editing-crispr-hiv-experiment/ https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/10/25/1082306/gene-edi...
- huytersd 2y ago
  No one does that surgery unless you have very advanced lymphoma. It’s not a cure.
  - hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
    You're weaseling with the ambiguity of the word "cure". I already stated the extreme conditions that approach would require. It has resulted in deliberate, although incidental, cures several times. It was certainly a cure for them. CRISPR personalized approaches are more promising by precisely excising vDNA. There is no panacea here.
    - huytersd 2y ago
      Based on your username, I’m not sure if you have HIV but EBT 101 has begun human trials as of last year and we should find out how it turns out before the end of this year. It’s from the same team that was able to eliminate SIV from primates using the same techniques.
      - hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
        Very cool! Thanks, but don't need it. (Actually a platelet donor.) I couldn't fit a whole AC/DC title into hn's restrictions, and it originally had something to do with electricity.
huytersd 2y ago
If treat means a lifetime of a much higher OI risk and a 2000% higher risk of cancer.
- robocat 2y ago
  OI? Please expand acronyms: we're not all in your context.
  - huytersd 2y ago
    Opportunistic infections. TB is the number one killer of people with HIV that are medicated. Along with a host of other viruses, fungi and MRSAs. You might live for 30 years after contracting HIV but they’re going to be sick, medically expensive years.

hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago

Raising HIV against prostitution is like bringing up animal cruelty for veganism: it's not really the most important of many overlapping concerns surrounding the issue. Anti-prostitution and anti-abortion laws in the US exist because evangelical Christian white supremacists are able to tell heathens what they can't do with their bodies and pass laws to force their views on other people. These come with the burdens of jail time in the case of prostitution or losing the ability to reproduce or one's life in the case of eliminating the possibility of emergency abortions. Most of America: "The Bible says..."

WorkerBee28474 2y ago
> evangelical Christian white supremacists Ah yes, the ol' reliable 'everyone who disagrees with me is a Nazi' approach
- yareal 2y ago
  I think they described the situation fairly? The folks who legislate against sex work tend to tick most of those boxes.
  - hi-v-rocknroll 2y ago
    To be fair, there is real shade to throw at traditional neoliberal uppercase Democrats of the 90's-10's too: copying features of conservatism but then putting off most of the country with bicoastal elitism. The Clintons and Reagans were both out of touch and announced policy on issues without much community engagement. Sex work is legal and more-or-less regulated in most of the UK and Europe even where Le Pen-flavor nationalism is ascending in prevalence. The US has a special kind of polarized infighting and much more variance in rights and restrictions that the rest of the world. For example, if I were to say "I'm pro conceal carry guns for people who continue to show demonstrably sane and stable residents." this wouldn't fly in most of Europe or Australia, regardless of right or left party across the way except for perhaps the fringe far-right. That is to say: norms in America differ significantly from the rest of the world in sometimes disquieting ways to outsiders, due to enduring historical roots and political interests. Perhaps a compromise to placate the majority of Americans would be: "don't touch the right to bear arms in exchange for bodily autonomy and healthcare." The 1995 Oklahoma City bombing didn't happen in a vacuum. It was 100% homegrown terrorism that thrived and came to pass in a culture of government conspiracy theories, Waco, white nationalism, and failure to care for and reintegrate Gulf War vets. Chris Hedges wrote a book on the topic: American Fascists (2008). Excluding Jan 6th as different kind of event, that there hasn't been another domestic terrorism mass casualty event due to diligent work by law enforcement combined with a tinge of dumb luck.

yieldcrv 2y ago

I personally like the legal and regulated approach, specifically because it comes with routine worker testing and consumer protections and labor rights apparently sex workers like decriminalized, because non-compliance with the regulated regimes have so far been a parallel illegal system but I cant think of any industry we would listen to who answered “how about just a completely hands off decriminalized approach” if asked to choose between illegal, unregulated, legal and regulated I don’t think decriminalized comes with adequate consumer protection, and the problems with legalized systems can be addressed by fixing how non-compliance is penalized, and by providing incentives to join the regulated system instead of just penalties for not regarding trafficking, well keep prosecuting that. as labor trafficking. make more avenues of support for the laborer which is far easier with labor rights. what people find hardest to reconcile is the idea of giving up on preventing trafficking, nothing they support right now is doing that or capable of doing that while burdening everyone else.

throw_m239339 2y ago

This wasn't prostitution on trial, it was a bunch of pimps and human traffickers. Just because they "are just an app" doesn't change the nature of their crime. Not sure what your comment HIV has to do with anything either when it comes to that case.