4 ms·

I've already made peace with the fact I likely will not - my income has gone up 8x in 10 years and I'm still barely keeping up with the cost of things, barely a

I've already made peace with the fact I likely will not - my income has gone up 8x in 10 years and I'm still barely keeping up with the cost of things, barely any real savings, etc. I'm just very lucky to have no real debt. Now, wages are kind of flatlining and stagnating at my current level. Prices always increasing at a savage pace. And I'm one of the ones that's doing well compared to my peers - I have friends that I am doubtful they will survive into older age without significant government intervention. I am just trying to stay healthy enough to be able to stay sharp enough to work into my 70's. I think the system is "working as intended" honestly - if workers are constantly worried about basic survival, how can they ever organize? It keeps people in line far too often, all the while the wealthiest keep getting wealthier. I have a very hard time taking anyone seriously that says this system is working well (at least in the US). I'm not even mentioning the fact that if you are <40 there is virtually no chance you are going to get social security benefits - the political elite nowadays don't even try to pretend like that's not a thing anymore.

s1artibartfast 3y ago
How can your income go up 8x and not keep pace? Either you couldn't afford things before or your lifestyle has inflated tremendously
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- sam0x17 3y ago
  So let's assume something like $25k for first job. That would be $200k now after the 8x. Poverty line in SF right now is $82k, so depending on where you live, $200k isn't that much.
  - poulsbohemian 3y ago
    Especially in places like Washington state, where the latest stats tell us you need an income of $150K to even consider buying a home (averaged across the state).
    - greedo 3y ago
      If you can't make it on $200K you have fundamental money management issues.
      - JohnMakin 3y ago
        “make it” is a loaded term. You’re unlikely to achieve a very strong retirement on that income in a lot of US states.
        s1artibartfast 3y ago
        It depends on what you want out of retirement. If you are making 200k in a high cost of area, your home will be worth several million. That's where the retirement money went. If you expect to be able to die without tapping the retirement account, you will have a problem. You need a reverse mortgage or to sell out and go back to renting.
        bradlys 3y ago
        You’re assuming you even could buy a home at $200k/yr. You can’t in several places - usually places where those $200k incomes are achievable.
        s1artibartfast 3y ago
        I think that is over-stated. Much of it depends on the home people want, how long they will save, and commute distance acceptable. At 200k, it isnt that people can't buy a house, it is that they dont like what they can afford. You cant afford a downtown penthouse/mansion on SF & NY with 200k, but you can absolutely buy a home in both locations.
        bradlys 3y ago
        Find me a decent home that you can actually buy in SF proper with $200k/yr.
  - tekla 3y ago
    Absolutely insane to insinuate $200k isn't that much money.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    That means you weren't keeping up in the first place. 25k was not what one would consider a livable salary for SF in 2014
- JohnMakin 3y ago
  I made $7.25 an hour
  - buggy6257 3y ago
    For the math that would mean after 8x he’s now making ~111k. Depending on the place he lives this may very well not be keeping pace with COL
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    And I correct in understanding correctly that you feel worse off now making 58/hr?
    - JohnMakin 3y ago
      No? I didn’t say that. I said I don’t think I’m keeping up enough in terms of being able to retire. I am doing much better than my peers.
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
        thanks for clarifying. I ready it the other way in that you make 8x but you feel you were doing no better at keeping up with the costs of living (e.g. you were on the same track before) I read it that way because of this: >my income has gone up 8x in 10 years and I'm still barely keeping up with the cost of things, barely any real savings, etc.
        arghnoname 3y ago
        I made those sorts of wages, and at least for me what happened initially as income went up is I went from drowning to treading water. Instead of having a car that doesn't run or a suspended license from being unable to pay a speeding ticket, or a dentist visit many years deferred, those issues get taken care of. Salary that low and you're not keeping up, you're falling behind. It's entirely possible to make 8X as much and feel you're barely advancing. While this is progress, it's not very satisfying progress because it feels that falling back into the previous pit is not really ever very far away.
- pcthrowaway 3y ago
  Not the person you replied to, but minimum wage was $5.15/hr when I started working, which is like $10K/yr. If you live in a high tax and high CoL place now, 80K/year might not be enough to save anything
  - BobbyTables2 3y ago
    At that time, car insurance was also easily $200-$300 a month for under 25… That plus gas, rent, utilities would leave plenty for food… like ramen and bulk rice.
- thedailymail 3y ago
  I think it may be that his income went up eight times (= on eight separate occasions), not 8X (800%).
CobaltFire 3y ago
Assuming federal minimum wage 10 years ago ($7.25) at 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year we get $14,500. 8 x $14,500 is $116,000. I won't say that's a lot of money in California (though it is above average), so it's just possible this is true (for those criticizing).
- Gibbon1 3y ago
  I made a joke to my GF about ten years ago that I'm going to write a travel book called. Live Flat Fucking Broke in San Francisco for Only $300 a Day. Take one person in a non married couple earning $116k and the other unemployed. Strip off taxes, rent, utilities, gas and auto insurance, FOOD. Ain't much left over.
  - CobaltFire 3y ago
    Can't argue with that! I grew up in Marin and live a few hours away now; I know what it's like up there (still up there regularly for family events).
zrn900 3y ago
All the things that you said should be a reason to star wearing a red cap instead of making your peace with them.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
  Red cap?

s1artibartfast 3y ago

How can your income go up 8x and not keep pace? Either you couldn't afford things before or your lifestyle has inflated tremendously

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
sam0x17 3y ago
So let's assume something like $25k for first job. That would be $200k now after the 8x. Poverty line in SF right now is $82k, so depending on where you live, $200k isn't that much.
- poulsbohemian 3y ago
  Especially in places like Washington state, where the latest stats tell us you need an income of $150K to even consider buying a home (averaged across the state).
  - greedo 3y ago
    If you can't make it on $200K you have fundamental money management issues.
    - JohnMakin 3y ago
      “make it” is a loaded term. You’re unlikely to achieve a very strong retirement on that income in a lot of US states.
      - s1artibartfast 3y ago
        It depends on what you want out of retirement. If you are making 200k in a high cost of area, your home will be worth several million. That's where the retirement money went. If you expect to be able to die without tapping the retirement account, you will have a problem. You need a reverse mortgage or to sell out and go back to renting.
        bradlys 3y ago
        You’re assuming you even could buy a home at $200k/yr. You can’t in several places - usually places where those $200k incomes are achievable.
        s1artibartfast 3y ago
        I think that is over-stated. Much of it depends on the home people want, how long they will save, and commute distance acceptable. At 200k, it isnt that people can't buy a house, it is that they dont like what they can afford. You cant afford a downtown penthouse/mansion on SF & NY with 200k, but you can absolutely buy a home in both locations.
        bradlys 3y ago
        Find me a decent home that you can actually buy in SF proper with $200k/yr.
- tekla 3y ago
  Absolutely insane to insinuate $200k isn't that much money.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  That means you weren't keeping up in the first place. 25k was not what one would consider a livable salary for SF in 2014
JohnMakin 3y ago
I made $7.25 an hour
- buggy6257 3y ago
  For the math that would mean after 8x he’s now making ~111k. Depending on the place he lives this may very well not be keeping pace with COL
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  And I correct in understanding correctly that you feel worse off now making 58/hr?
  - JohnMakin 3y ago
    No? I didn’t say that. I said I don’t think I’m keeping up enough in terms of being able to retire. I am doing much better than my peers.
    - s1artibartfast 3y ago
      thanks for clarifying. I ready it the other way in that you make 8x but you feel you were doing no better at keeping up with the costs of living (e.g. you were on the same track before) I read it that way because of this: >my income has gone up 8x in 10 years and I'm still barely keeping up with the cost of things, barely any real savings, etc.
      - arghnoname 3y ago
        I made those sorts of wages, and at least for me what happened initially as income went up is I went from drowning to treading water. Instead of having a car that doesn't run or a suspended license from being unable to pay a speeding ticket, or a dentist visit many years deferred, those issues get taken care of. Salary that low and you're not keeping up, you're falling behind. It's entirely possible to make 8X as much and feel you're barely advancing. While this is progress, it's not very satisfying progress because it feels that falling back into the previous pit is not really ever very far away.
pcthrowaway 3y ago
Not the person you replied to, but minimum wage was $5.15/hr when I started working, which is like $10K/yr. If you live in a high tax and high CoL place now, 80K/year might not be enough to save anything
- BobbyTables2 3y ago
  At that time, car insurance was also easily $200-$300 a month for under 25… That plus gas, rent, utilities would leave plenty for food… like ramen and bulk rice.
thedailymail 3y ago
I think it may be that his income went up eight times (= on eight separate occasions), not 8X (800%).

CobaltFire 3y ago

Assuming federal minimum wage 10 years ago ($7.25) at 40 hours a week, 50 weeks a year we get $14,500. 8 x $14,500 is $116,000. I won't say that's a lot of money in California (though it is above average), so it's just possible this is true (for those criticizing).

Gibbon1 3y ago
I made a joke to my GF about ten years ago that I'm going to write a travel book called. Live Flat Fucking Broke in San Francisco for Only $300 a Day. Take one person in a non married couple earning $116k and the other unemployed. Strip off taxes, rent, utilities, gas and auto insurance, FOOD. Ain't much left over.
- CobaltFire 3y ago
  Can't argue with that! I grew up in Marin and live a few hours away now; I know what it's like up there (still up there regularly for family events).

zrn900 3y ago

All the things that you said should be a reason to star wearing a red cap instead of making your peace with them.

Red_Leaves_Flyy 3y ago
Red cap?