4 ms·

Love this. Then our leaders' true views of us as cattle will be out wide in the open.

tivert 3y ago
> Love this. Then our leaders' true views of us as cattle will be out wide in the open. Wow, you misunderstood that pretty badly. Unless you can make a money-golem, a pile of cash can't take care of you in your old age, labor will. If you haven't had kids, it means you haven't paid into the future labor pool, and it would therefore be unfair for you to withdraw from it once labor becomes too constrained. To do otherwise would be like paying out full pensions to people who never paid a dime into the system.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  You already pay in by working during your productive years. You’re arguing for a pyramid scheme where you pay for both generations before you and the ones who come after. Better to simply opt out if you’re going to be squeezed economically for a suboptimal socioeconomic system. You’re just livestock that didn’t consent to be here.
  - throwway120385 3y ago
    I agree that this is a bad idea, but you should note that Social Security in the US is already a pyramid scheme. That's the entire reason these articles about the fertility rate are a thing -- there aren't enough able bodied people being born to cover Social Security for the people aging out of the workforce in 20 years.
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      Indeed, population ballooned [1] and everyone thought the gravy train of growth was never going to end. Sucks to discover the future isn’t going to be better than the past. Quality of life was artificially inflated, and the bill coming due will be unpleasant. Regardless, individuals must be empowered to live their best life (if they choose to be childfree) [2] [3] [4] [5], even if it breaks the entrenched system. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/population https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/population [2] https://www.axios.com/2024/04/16/young-adult-sterilization-increase-roe https://www.axios.com/2024/04/16/young-adult-sterilization-i... [3] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama-health-forum/fullarticle/2817438 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama-health-forum/fullartic... [4] https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20230208-the-adults-celebrating-child-free-lives https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20230208-the-adults-cel... [5] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/11/19/growing-share-of-childless-adults-in-u-s-dont-expect-to-ever-have-children/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/11/19/growing-s...
  - tivert 3y ago
    > You’re arguing for a pyramid scheme where you pay for both generations before you and the ones who come after. The system I'm starting to conceive doesn't seem like a pyramid scheme, but rather something more balanced than what we have now: 1. You contribute into the pension system to support your parents (through a pension), as a societal obligation. After all, they more likely than not supported you when you needed it. 2. You contribute labor to the next generation of society, in the form of children, to make a claim to the society's, labor-dependent, old-age support programs (funded through point 1). Otherwise, you're on your own to support yourself, which would probably consist of working well into what we currently consider the "retirement years," and/or "choosing" euthanasia when that is no longer possible. > You’re just livestock that didn’t consent to be here. No one ever consented to "be here," and it would be impossible to do so. That's just a fact of life.

> Love this. Then our leaders' true views of us as cattle will be out wide in the open. Wow, you misunderstood that pretty badly. Unless you can make a money-golem, a pile of cash can't take care of you in your old age, labor will. If you haven't had kids, it means you haven't paid into the future labor pool, and it would therefore be unfair for you to withdraw from it once labor becomes too constrained. To do otherwise would be like paying out full pensions to people who never paid a dime into the system.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
You already pay in by working during your productive years. You’re arguing for a pyramid scheme where you pay for both generations before you and the ones who come after. Better to simply opt out if you’re going to be squeezed economically for a suboptimal socioeconomic system. You’re just livestock that didn’t consent to be here.
- throwway120385 3y ago
  I agree that this is a bad idea, but you should note that Social Security in the US is already a pyramid scheme. That's the entire reason these articles about the fertility rate are a thing -- there aren't enough able bodied people being born to cover Social Security for the people aging out of the workforce in 20 years.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Indeed, population ballooned [1] and everyone thought the gravy train of growth was never going to end. Sucks to discover the future isn’t going to be better than the past. Quality of life was artificially inflated, and the bill coming due will be unpleasant. Regardless, individuals must be empowered to live their best life (if they choose to be childfree) [2] [3] [4] [5], even if it breaks the entrenched system. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/population https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/population [2] https://www.axios.com/2024/04/16/young-adult-sterilization-increase-roe https://www.axios.com/2024/04/16/young-adult-sterilization-i... [3] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama-health-forum/fullarticle/2817438 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama-health-forum/fullartic... [4] https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20230208-the-adults-celebrating-child-free-lives https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20230208-the-adults-cel... [5] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/11/19/growing-share-of-childless-adults-in-u-s-dont-expect-to-ever-have-children/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/11/19/growing-s...
- tivert 3y ago
  > You’re arguing for a pyramid scheme where you pay for both generations before you and the ones who come after. The system I'm starting to conceive doesn't seem like a pyramid scheme, but rather something more balanced than what we have now: 1. You contribute into the pension system to support your parents (through a pension), as a societal obligation. After all, they more likely than not supported you when you needed it. 2. You contribute labor to the next generation of society, in the form of children, to make a claim to the society's, labor-dependent, old-age support programs (funded through point 1). Otherwise, you're on your own to support yourself, which would probably consist of working well into what we currently consider the "retirement years," and/or "choosing" euthanasia when that is no longer possible. > You’re just livestock that didn’t consent to be here. No one ever consented to "be here," and it would be impossible to do so. That's just a fact of life.