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>Meta already sells the Quest systems basically at production cost This is of course scary and why the VR market is now pretty much a monopoly. Perhaps the nex

>Meta already sells the Quest systems basically at production cost This is of course scary and why the VR market is now pretty much a monopoly. Perhaps the next versions of the vision pro will be lowered cost and have more games, but Zuck is just throwing money at each headset so how can groups like HTC compete? HTC and Valve never really had a chance when a headset that costs $300 to make is sold for $300. Zuck and Carmack running victory laps now trying to Android-ize VR is probably not super surprising, but all of this show what happens when there's no real regulations to stop this kind of monopolization. imho, Apple certainly saw this coming and fears a new Android-like competitor in a space they arguably could do well in. So the Vision Pro was pushed out before this got traction. Now its a matter of titan vs titan because smaller players are probably not going to enter this space anymore outside of hardware partners for Meta.

supernovae 2y ago
Valve never really tried to compete. Index is old, outdated and never saw a price discount and their supposed Index V2 has been delayed so long it's a huge meme. HTC never really iterated like Quest did beyond big bulky headsets that required a full room set up did they? I can't say Meta spending 10s of millions to push the technology forward is monopolistic unless you want to say Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft consoles or any device with a walled garden (ipad/iphone) ecosystem is monopolistic.
- robandrews 2y ago
  Though total losses for Reality Labs is not 10s of millions but $45B since the end of 2020 [1]. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/meta-stock-plunges-15-company-plans-invest-heavliy-artificial-intellig-rcna149258# https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/meta-stock-plunges-15...
asdff 2y ago
Why would the vision pro have games? I'm still waiting for the damn iPhone to be the gaming platform they promised over a decade ago. I watched over the last few years as Mac computers somehow got more powerful than they ever were but also have lost just about all support for modern games. The truth is, despite what apple says out of their mouth at their pressers, they don't really care about gaming or have any interest in establishing a viable development environment for this platform. Valve isn't even porting their games to mac anymore despite how much fanfare the relationship with this company and apple had for years.
- dagmx 2y ago
  You’re conflating games with high end gaming. The iPhone is a gaming platform. It’s one of the largest ones in fact. Mobile gaming (iOS and Android) dwarves other gaming. This is the issue that “gamers” have a hard time grappling with because they often disregard mobile games as an inferior product. But then it leads to the fact that the mobile platforms don’t actually have to cater to their needs other than as halo products. They optimize for the majority of their customers and the majority are mobile gamers who are happy with the range of mobile games available.
  - TillE 2y ago
    > they often disregard mobile games as an inferior product Have you seen the type of mobile game which accrues the vast, vast majority of the revenue? They are literally designed as addiction engines first, and games a distant second. They're "games" in the same way that a baited hook is fish food. The relative handful of actual good mobile games have often struggled, partly because Apple is very happy to promote and take a cut of the enormous revenue generated by this predatory business.
- akaij 2y ago
  > I'm still waiting for the damn iPhone to be the gaming platform they promised over a decade ago. They have a different definition of gaming than we do. The games they're interested in are the ones with in-app purchases. Except the design department, "good enough" is their motto for everything. "iPhone is the most popular gaming device" and "iPhone is the most popular camera" are two technically correct statements that don't sit right with me, but that's just me.
  - GeekyBear 2y ago
    > The games they're interested in are the ones with in-app purchases. Apple literally pays developers of mobile games an up front premium to strip out all the Skinner Box nonsense and create an Apple Arcade version of their app.
    - 2y ago
_mlbt 2y ago
HTC no, but Valve absolutely could compete. They have an existing popular App Store where they receive a cut of the profits. Even breaking even on hardware costs they could still reap fairly substantial profits if they were to succeed in the VR market. Also regarding the Vision Pro, as long as Apple doesn't give up on it, it absolutely should come down in price over time. The original Macintosh retailed for $2,495, which is approximately the equivalent of $7,250 in today's dollars adjusted for inflation.
- whacko_quacko 2y ago
  I agree, but I'd add that Valve also has the technical acumen and the good will of a community that knows they stand behind their products. To build something like the steam deck, even though it's not VR, you have to solve a lot of the same issues you'd have with VR.[1] Personally, I'd rather vote Valve with my wallet than Meta. [1]: I'm mostly thinking about constrained space, weight and power delivery here. Obviously for proper VR there's a bit more that goes into it, but they're definitely not clueless.

supernovae 2y ago

Valve never really tried to compete. Index is old, outdated and never saw a price discount and their supposed Index V2 has been delayed so long it's a huge meme. HTC never really iterated like Quest did beyond big bulky headsets that required a full room set up did they? I can't say Meta spending 10s of millions to push the technology forward is monopolistic unless you want to say Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft consoles or any device with a walled garden (ipad/iphone) ecosystem is monopolistic.

robandrews 2y ago
Though total losses for Reality Labs is not 10s of millions but $45B since the end of 2020 [1]. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/meta-stock-plunges-15-company-plans-invest-heavliy-artificial-intellig-rcna149258# https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/meta-stock-plunges-15...

asdff 2y ago

Why would the vision pro have games? I'm still waiting for the damn iPhone to be the gaming platform they promised over a decade ago. I watched over the last few years as Mac computers somehow got more powerful than they ever were but also have lost just about all support for modern games. The truth is, despite what apple says out of their mouth at their pressers, they don't really care about gaming or have any interest in establishing a viable development environment for this platform. Valve isn't even porting their games to mac anymore despite how much fanfare the relationship with this company and apple had for years.

dagmx 2y ago
You’re conflating games with high end gaming. The iPhone is a gaming platform. It’s one of the largest ones in fact. Mobile gaming (iOS and Android) dwarves other gaming. This is the issue that “gamers” have a hard time grappling with because they often disregard mobile games as an inferior product. But then it leads to the fact that the mobile platforms don’t actually have to cater to their needs other than as halo products. They optimize for the majority of their customers and the majority are mobile gamers who are happy with the range of mobile games available.
- TillE 2y ago
  > they often disregard mobile games as an inferior product Have you seen the type of mobile game which accrues the vast, vast majority of the revenue? They are literally designed as addiction engines first, and games a distant second. They're "games" in the same way that a baited hook is fish food. The relative handful of actual good mobile games have often struggled, partly because Apple is very happy to promote and take a cut of the enormous revenue generated by this predatory business.
akaij 2y ago
> I'm still waiting for the damn iPhone to be the gaming platform they promised over a decade ago. They have a different definition of gaming than we do. The games they're interested in are the ones with in-app purchases. Except the design department, "good enough" is their motto for everything. "iPhone is the most popular gaming device" and "iPhone is the most popular camera" are two technically correct statements that don't sit right with me, but that's just me.
- GeekyBear 2y ago
  > The games they're interested in are the ones with in-app purchases. Apple literally pays developers of mobile games an up front premium to strip out all the Skinner Box nonsense and create an Apple Arcade version of their app.
  - 2y ago

_mlbt 2y ago

HTC no, but Valve absolutely could compete. They have an existing popular App Store where they receive a cut of the profits. Even breaking even on hardware costs they could still reap fairly substantial profits if they were to succeed in the VR market. Also regarding the Vision Pro, as long as Apple doesn't give up on it, it absolutely should come down in price over time. The original Macintosh retailed for $2,495, which is approximately the equivalent of $7,250 in today's dollars adjusted for inflation.

whacko_quacko 2y ago
I agree, but I'd add that Valve also has the technical acumen and the good will of a community that knows they stand behind their products. To build something like the steam deck, even though it's not VR, you have to solve a lot of the same issues you'd have with VR.[1] Personally, I'd rather vote Valve with my wallet than Meta. [1]: I'm mostly thinking about constrained space, weight and power delivery here. Obviously for proper VR there's a bit more that goes into it, but they're definitely not clueless.