3 ms·

Sorry but... At the Unity (WM) time Ubuntu was the distro able to satisfy both end users and techies, adopting Gnome SHell they already say "we are like others"

by kkfx 3y ago

Sorry but... At the Unity (WM) time Ubuntu was the distro able to satisfy both end users and techies, adopting Gnome SHell they already say "we are like others", than pushing CRAP like snap have completed the game. Back than Ubuntu have ceased to be interested for anyone with a bit of competence and have started to be annoying for generic users. NixOS today is not in an excellent shape, but is the go-to distro of any tech savvy, Arch have intercepted old-schools users locked in a far past, Guix System try to thrive, Ubuntu now is on par of classic RH in crappiness and commercial conduct.

cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago
Cripes. What bubble are you living in? Why are we still at a place where choosing a Linux distribution is like picking your lunch table at school?
- kkfx 3y ago
  It's not a distro war. It's a paradigm. Ubuntu, Arch, Fedora, OpenSuse, ... are all classic distros meant to be manually handled, some are rolling, some are not, but they share the same '80s style way of work. Declarative distros offer: - stability - easy replication - easy upgrades - easy rollback Ubuntu in the past was interesting because Unity was a nice desktop environment for both a newcomer and a seasoned user, it does not interfere narcissistically with the user actions like Gnome SHell that to it's best to be at the center of anything or modern KDE. Unity was as minimal a Fluxbox while as nice and dice for users like a modern desktop environment. And was an Ubuntu only show. After that Ubuntu is just another classic distro, good for a distro war between the Debianist the RH-ist etc. It's another SuSe back than. With NOTHING special to offer, except that it annoy it's users with snap.
doublepg23 3y ago
the amount of users of snaps likely exceeds total NixOS deployments
- kkfx 3y ago
  Seeing Repology stat on how many projects are in nixpkgs, how fresh they are, you are very largely wrong... Snaps/Flatpack have very few and mostly outdated packages. They are behind ANY other package system. NixOS is the largest set of packages and the most fresh. Arch and Guix follow short. The others are behind. Not only, try to see how many "default.nix" or "shell.nix" you'll find in FLOSS projects, like in the past the "debian" dir. and you'll surely have an Idea.
3v1n0 3y ago
I understand in part what you mean, but ubuntu is also a disto that many users relay on for its stability and reliability, not just for being an hacker toy. I still use like that and anyone can, but normal users are the main target.
- kkfx 3y ago
  Ubuntu is a classic distro, meaning hard-to-automate for deployments with invitation to buy services for that purpose, so offer no advantage in stability and reliability compared to modern declarative distros like NixOS or Guix System with their essentially read-only system, easy custom deploy and replication, easy rebuild, as a fresh install every time, easily poor man IllumOS Boot Environments with their linked generations. "Normal users", meaning non tech-savvy ones are Windows or OSX targets, because with Ubuntu they still need to use a terminal a bit more than Microsoft/Apple stuff, and they still have to deploy their own systems. For a bit more "power users" having to manually deploy an official ISO than customize it or keep it up polluted, an update at a time, is a NIGHTMARE. Try to upgrade a normal Ubuntu for few releases and you'll see things breaking, you fix the manually augmented the entropy. With a declarative distro any updated inter-release and cross-release is a fresh install out of your config, no forgotten fixes/hacks no leftovers. Those who claim Ubuntu as stable are stuck in a far past, before declarative distros exists.
  - 3v1n0 3y ago
    Are you telling me that to me who installed his current production system using lucid lynx (e.g. 10.04 - you can do the math)?!?

by kkfx 3y ago

cqqxo4zV46cp 3y ago

Cripes. What bubble are you living in? Why are we still at a place where choosing a Linux distribution is like picking your lunch table at school?

kkfx 3y ago
It's not a distro war. It's a paradigm. Ubuntu, Arch, Fedora, OpenSuse, ... are all classic distros meant to be manually handled, some are rolling, some are not, but they share the same '80s style way of work. Declarative distros offer: - stability - easy replication - easy upgrades - easy rollback Ubuntu in the past was interesting because Unity was a nice desktop environment for both a newcomer and a seasoned user, it does not interfere narcissistically with the user actions like Gnome SHell that to it's best to be at the center of anything or modern KDE. Unity was as minimal a Fluxbox while as nice and dice for users like a modern desktop environment. And was an Ubuntu only show. After that Ubuntu is just another classic distro, good for a distro war between the Debianist the RH-ist etc. It's another SuSe back than. With NOTHING special to offer, except that it annoy it's users with snap.

doublepg23 3y ago

the amount of users of snaps likely exceeds total NixOS deployments

kkfx 3y ago
Seeing Repology stat on how many projects are in nixpkgs, how fresh they are, you are very largely wrong... Snaps/Flatpack have very few and mostly outdated packages. They are behind ANY other package system. NixOS is the largest set of packages and the most fresh. Arch and Guix follow short. The others are behind. Not only, try to see how many "default.nix" or "shell.nix" you'll find in FLOSS projects, like in the past the "debian" dir. and you'll surely have an Idea.

3v1n0 3y ago

I understand in part what you mean, but ubuntu is also a disto that many users relay on for its stability and reliability, not just for being an hacker toy. I still use like that and anyone can, but normal users are the main target.

kkfx 3y ago
Ubuntu is a classic distro, meaning hard-to-automate for deployments with invitation to buy services for that purpose, so offer no advantage in stability and reliability compared to modern declarative distros like NixOS or Guix System with their essentially read-only system, easy custom deploy and replication, easy rebuild, as a fresh install every time, easily poor man IllumOS Boot Environments with their linked generations. "Normal users", meaning non tech-savvy ones are Windows or OSX targets, because with Ubuntu they still need to use a terminal a bit more than Microsoft/Apple stuff, and they still have to deploy their own systems. For a bit more "power users" having to manually deploy an official ISO than customize it or keep it up polluted, an update at a time, is a NIGHTMARE. Try to upgrade a normal Ubuntu for few releases and you'll see things breaking, you fix the manually augmented the entropy. With a declarative distro any updated inter-release and cross-release is a fresh install out of your config, no forgotten fixes/hacks no leftovers. Those who claim Ubuntu as stable are stuck in a far past, before declarative distros exists.
- 3v1n0 3y ago
  Are you telling me that to me who installed his current production system using lucid lynx (e.g. 10.04 - you can do the math)?!?