5 ms·

Asking genuinely, what causes Ubuntu to be more of a treadmill from say Debian?

cs702 2y ago
Sorry, I don't understand your question. By "treadmill" I mean sticking to a particular distro year after year, upgrading regularly -- it could be Ubuntu, Debian, Red Hat, CentOS, etc. Unless you're constantly switching distros, you're on a treadmill. I wasn't comparing Ubuntu to other distros.
- FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
  "Treadmill" is usually used pejoratively, e.g. hedonistic treadmill.
  - cs702 2y ago
    Thanks. Yes, you're right, sometimes "treadmill" is used pejoratively to describe forced upgrades that otherwise would be unnecessary. I was referring to the fact that we are all voluntarily installing security updates and/or improved versions of the software we use, year after year.
    - halJordan 2y ago
      Fwiw i did not understand your original comment as pejorative, and thought it was a well done turn of phrase
      - ahartmetz 2y ago
        FWIW, I did pick up the pejorative connotation at first, but then realized it probably wasn't intended that way due to the complete lack of other negativity in the post.
  - gloryjulio 2y ago
    It's hackernews. I would recognize that this is in a joking manner
- ryanisnan 2y ago
  Oh I see. I interpreted your comment as if it were more of a treadmill than other distributions.
jsheard 2y ago
If you use the non-LTS versions of Ubuntu then you are expected to upgrade to each new version in short order, the previous version (23.10) is only supported until July.
- ryanisnan 2y ago
  Django has the same problem. You either have to upgrade all the time, or you have to jump LTS to LTS, which is also not advised from Django's perspective.
  - cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
    There are so many ways in which the Django upgrade process could be worse, and IMO very few ways in which it could be better. Not really sure how this is a “problem”.
actionfromafar 2y ago
I wish Debian was a treadmill with fixed release dates like Ubuntu has.
- mort96 2y ago
  I mean it's not the same month every time, but it seems to be on a pretty stable 2 year cycle?
- NewJazz 2y ago
  What benefit would that have? Even if new versions are not released on a fixed schedule, you don't have to upgrade immediately.
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    Migration scheduling and planning for total software lifetime. Everything is just smoother on a fixed cadence.
    - NewJazz 2y ago
      You can do a fixed cadence even if Debian doesn't though. Just every year, upgrade to the new stable if it is available.
      - actionfromafar 2y ago
        Yeah, but now you have your own problems instead of pain shared by millions of other users. A lot of orgs on the same cadence is a great and under-estimated thing. I'm just sayin'
        NewJazz 2y ago
        I don't get what you mean, actually. A lot of orgs upgrading simultaneously means that none of them have prior experience to look to. A staggered rollout of new software versions is often viewed as a less risky deployment method.

Sorry, I don't understand your question. By "treadmill" I mean sticking to a particular distro year after year, upgrading regularly -- it could be Ubuntu, Debian, Red Hat, CentOS, etc. Unless you're constantly switching distros, you're on a treadmill. I wasn't comparing Ubuntu to other distros.

FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
"Treadmill" is usually used pejoratively, e.g. hedonistic treadmill.
- cs702 2y ago
  Thanks. Yes, you're right, sometimes "treadmill" is used pejoratively to describe forced upgrades that otherwise would be unnecessary. I was referring to the fact that we are all voluntarily installing security updates and/or improved versions of the software we use, year after year.
  - halJordan 2y ago
    Fwiw i did not understand your original comment as pejorative, and thought it was a well done turn of phrase
    - ahartmetz 2y ago
      FWIW, I did pick up the pejorative connotation at first, but then realized it probably wasn't intended that way due to the complete lack of other negativity in the post.
- gloryjulio 2y ago
  It's hackernews. I would recognize that this is in a joking manner
ryanisnan 2y ago
Oh I see. I interpreted your comment as if it were more of a treadmill than other distributions.

jsheard 2y ago

If you use the non-LTS versions of Ubuntu then you are expected to upgrade to each new version in short order, the previous version (23.10) is only supported until July.

ryanisnan 2y ago
Django has the same problem. You either have to upgrade all the time, or you have to jump LTS to LTS, which is also not advised from Django's perspective.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 2y ago
  There are so many ways in which the Django upgrade process could be worse, and IMO very few ways in which it could be better. Not really sure how this is a “problem”.

actionfromafar 2y ago

I wish Debian was a treadmill with fixed release dates like Ubuntu has.

mort96 2y ago
I mean it's not the same month every time, but it seems to be on a pretty stable 2 year cycle?
NewJazz 2y ago
What benefit would that have? Even if new versions are not released on a fixed schedule, you don't have to upgrade immediately.
- actionfromafar 2y ago
  Migration scheduling and planning for total software lifetime. Everything is just smoother on a fixed cadence.
  - NewJazz 2y ago
    You can do a fixed cadence even if Debian doesn't though. Just every year, upgrade to the new stable if it is available.
    - actionfromafar 2y ago
      Yeah, but now you have your own problems instead of pain shared by millions of other users. A lot of orgs on the same cadence is a great and under-estimated thing. I'm just sayin'
      - NewJazz 2y ago
        I don't get what you mean, actually. A lot of orgs upgrading simultaneously means that none of them have prior experience to look to. A staggered rollout of new software versions is often viewed as a less risky deployment method.