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I also went to a/the top CS school. When I graduated I would have never considered working at a defense company. Now, after bouncing around big tech and startup

I also went to a/the top CS school. When I graduated I would have never considered working at a defense company. Now, after bouncing around big tech and startups for a few years, I am a few days away from accepting a position at one. What changed? Appreciation for how entirely insignificant to downright harmful the rest of the industry is, perhaps. I made changes that impacted tens of millions of users in... no significant way whatsoever. Certainly not anything they'd remember on their deathbed. And what else is out there? Finding better algorithms to keep people hooked on their phones watching ads for longer, making more bullshit "AI" products to strip communication of all personality, and hundreds and hundreds of healthcare startups begging me to help them "cut out the middleman" in X healthcare system and replace them with... themselves! Idk. If I can make one anti-drone system take down one more suicide drone than it'd be able to without me, I'm 100% sure whoever would have been on the other end of that kamikaze will appreciate my efforts a hell of a lot more than the 2^25 people I fed a slightly different arrangement of pixels than they'd have gotten without me.

anonymousDan 2y ago
That 'cut out the middleman' angle always makes me chuckle. I remember seeing an ad on the tube for Made.com offering to cut out the middleman in furniture purchasing - what are you if not a middleman I thought!
- ethbr1 2y ago
  Cut out the middle and you're just dealing with The Man.
smallmancontrov 2y ago
That, and Poorly Targeted Revenge for 9/11 was not the most inspiring mission. Great Power Competition, however? I can get my blood pumping red, white, and blue for Great Power Competition.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
I still think the defense industry is the greater evil (since nearly everything that starts out as "defense" ends up being used for "offense"), but I 100% agree with your argument against the modern tech industry.
potatoman22 2y ago
The defense industry isn't just "defense" against bad people. Is it better to optimize the colors of buttons, or work on projects that could potentially kill innocent civilians?
- psunavy03 2y ago
  Wars suck. But sometimes the result of not fighting a war sucks more. Sure, military projects could POTENTIALLY kill innocent civilians. But that's not a guarantee, modern Western militaries go out of their way to minimize that, and again sometimes the result of not fighting a war would cause even more innocent people to suffer or die. The idea that "this one bad thing could happen, therefore I will do nothing that could remotely cause this one bad thing" is childish reasoning.
  - nerdponx 2y ago
    There are plenty of things that people can and do in private industry that are significantly more harmful than making some incremental improvement in a weapons platform.
- nyolfen 2y ago
  "cars don't just transport you, they also kill people in wrecks sometimes"
- bmitc 2y ago
  There are lots of things in the public sector that also kill people, unfortunately. While often less indirect or over time, companies simply trying to make a buck (be capitalist) have led to products, processes, trends, etc. that have killed a lot of people over time. I think the conclusion is that there is very little justified technology development that actually betters society, except for things that actually save people from dying. Things like healthcare, utilities, civil engineering, defense, etc. However, almost all of those industries are mired in bureaucracy and are the ultimate examples of such.
  - basil-rash 2y ago
avar 2y ago
> I made changes that impacted > tens of millions of users in... > no significant way whatsoever. > Certainly not anything they'd > remember on their deathbed [...] Going into defense to directly contribute to someone's deathbed experience is certainly one way to guarantee that you'll make it memorable.
- basil-rash 2y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40160961 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40160961

anonymousDan 2y ago

That 'cut out the middleman' angle always makes me chuckle. I remember seeing an ad on the tube for Made.com offering to cut out the middleman in furniture purchasing - what are you if not a middleman I thought!

ethbr1 2y ago
Cut out the middle and you're just dealing with The Man.

smallmancontrov 2y ago

That, and Poorly Targeted Revenge for 9/11 was not the most inspiring mission. Great Power Competition, however? I can get my blood pumping red, white, and blue for Great Power Competition.

insane_dreamer 2y ago

I still think the defense industry is the greater evil (since nearly everything that starts out as "defense" ends up being used for "offense"), but I 100% agree with your argument against the modern tech industry.

potatoman22 2y ago

The defense industry isn't just "defense" against bad people. Is it better to optimize the colors of buttons, or work on projects that could potentially kill innocent civilians?

psunavy03 2y ago
Wars suck. But sometimes the result of not fighting a war sucks more. Sure, military projects could POTENTIALLY kill innocent civilians. But that's not a guarantee, modern Western militaries go out of their way to minimize that, and again sometimes the result of not fighting a war would cause even more innocent people to suffer or die. The idea that "this one bad thing could happen, therefore I will do nothing that could remotely cause this one bad thing" is childish reasoning.
- nerdponx 2y ago
  There are plenty of things that people can and do in private industry that are significantly more harmful than making some incremental improvement in a weapons platform.
nyolfen 2y ago
"cars don't just transport you, they also kill people in wrecks sometimes"
bmitc 2y ago
There are lots of things in the public sector that also kill people, unfortunately. While often less indirect or over time, companies simply trying to make a buck (be capitalist) have led to products, processes, trends, etc. that have killed a lot of people over time. I think the conclusion is that there is very little justified technology development that actually betters society, except for things that actually save people from dying. Things like healthcare, utilities, civil engineering, defense, etc. However, almost all of those industries are mired in bureaucracy and are the ultimate examples of such.
- basil-rash 2y ago

avar 2y ago

> I made changes that impacted > tens of millions of users in... > no significant way whatsoever. > Certainly not anything they'd > remember on their deathbed [...] Going into defense to directly contribute to someone's deathbed experience is certainly one way to guarantee that you'll make it memorable.

basil-rash 2y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40160961 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40160961