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Some of the more leftwing NixOS contributors hate that Anduril is using their technology and are trying to keep them from contributing/sponsoring/etc. via code

Some of the more leftwing NixOS contributors hate that Anduril is using their technology and are trying to keep them from contributing/sponsoring/etc. via code of conduct changes.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
CamperBob2 2y ago
They should hold the next conference in Kyiv.
- vkou 2y ago
  Only if their warhawk counterparts hold their next shindig somewhere in Gaza (So they can see first-hand what the consequences of their work and advocacy look like).
  - relativ575 2y ago
    Kyiv would still be the right location. Russia want anything that may distract the world's attention from the crimes they commit everyday in Ukraine.
    - vkou 2y ago
      Russia's aggression against Ukraine, started a decade ago, the war on Palestinians has been going on for ~55 years.
      - yakshaving_jgt 2y ago
        I don’t think it’s right to make comparisons like this. But if you really want to go there, have you tried comparing the death toll? In Ukraine, it’s likely around three quarters of a million dead in two years.
      - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
        This comparison is irrelevant to the conversation. But even otherwise it is misleading and leaves out lots of history. The modern state of Israel has existed for that long - but if anything, it’s a war for Jewish people’s existence in land that was historically Jewish. And it wouldn’t be a “war” if Israel could exist peacefully and not constantly be threatened by terrorists. Most people don’t see a problem with a war of self defense in response to October 7, so I’m not sure what you think would happen if “warhawks” saw the “consequences” of their work. If anything, this is a low casualty conflict compared to most.
        vkou 2y ago
        I'm referring to the settlement land grabs and displacements that happened after 1967, not to its existence of either 1947 or 1967 borders. (Which have their own humanitarian problems, but that's something else.)
  - ordinaryradical 2y ago
    If you don’t want to build weapons because you don’t like the variety of ways they may be wielded, that’s a valid and reasonable ethical stance. If you don’t want to build anything that could ever potentially be used in the manufacture of those weapons, you probably shouldn’t be building open source software or contributing anything to do with any programming language at all.
    - vkou 2y ago
      I will point out that I am well aware of, and respect the stance that bad things done multiple-degrees-removed-from-you are not, like, entirely your responsibility. Or even necessarily your responsibility at all. I did, however, have to expand on the concept that it's very easy to have strong opinions about war when you yourself are sheltered from the consequences of it.
    - klausa 2y ago
      I think there's a big difference between "being used by" and "being active members of the community". Open Source means you can't really prohibit Anduril from using your projects; but _welcoming_ them and their money is a different matter altogether.
      - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
        When the defense industry funds things they tend to go for architectures without a single point of failure and have the resources to create new things if the existing things are insufficient or adversarial. DARPA funding created the internet etc. Meanwhile if you were to get the defense industry to not use your product, they're not going to go out of business or do less of whatever you didn't like. They're going to bring the same money to someone like Oracle or Microsoft with no qualms about taking it -- or bring even more money to them, which is your tax money, as those companies charge quite a lot. This makes me suspicious that the people agitating for "don't take their money" are being subtly or not so subtly encouraged to do so by the people who want to take their money instead. After all, the historical norm is the opposite. Not just TCP/IP but Tor and SELinux and microprocessors and, considering that AT&T has long been a major defense contractor, transistors and lasers and solar panels and C and all the rest of it. Are the same people who want to refuse their money also inclined to refuse all of the other things it paid for? Would we be better off if the University of California never took a Unix license or created BSD because of where it came from?
ranger_danger 2y ago
Honestly I think military is just a scapegoat for these people, their real mission (like many before them) seems to be using the lack of CoC acceptance as their own weapon to justify bullying them for having opinions they don't like. That has always been the MO. They want the CoC to be able to silence undesired speech in the first place, and if they refuse, it becomes their strawman to allow them to keep arguing the same thing all over again. To me this reeks of the "paradox of intolerance" e.g. "you cannot be inclusive without allowing people to say things you don't like".
- 4gotunameagain 2y ago
  While the phenomenon you describe certainly exists, it is vital to separate it from the phenomenon of not wanting to support the US "defense" sector. I do not identify as a leftist, and would not be considered one, but as an aerospace engineer I would never work for something that aids the US war machine. Those weapons are never used in "defense". Do they defend an unsustainable way of life ? Sure.
  - yakshaving_jgt 2y ago
    The last time I saw one of these weapons in use was when I was standing in my kitchen in Ukraine and through the window I could see a missile take down a russian suicide drone. How is that not defence?
    - 4gotunameagain 2y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States#21st-century_wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Uni... Ukraine is the only case. And let's not forget that the US is indirectly responsible for the Russian invasion. I know that it is very hard for you to see things objectively, and I am sorry for what you and your country is experiencing.
      - jagger27 2y ago
        The objectives of a land grabbing tyrant are what’s objective. You can’t be serious.
pxc 2y ago
Nobody is trying to stop them from using Nix or contributing code. The only objection is to their use of Nix community events for advertising through sponsorship of those events.

Some of the more leftwing NixOS contributors hate that Anduril is using their technology and are trying to keep them from contributing/sponsoring/etc. via code of conduct changes.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

CamperBob2 2y ago

They should hold the next conference in Kyiv.

vkou 2y ago
Only if their warhawk counterparts hold their next shindig somewhere in Gaza (So they can see first-hand what the consequences of their work and advocacy look like).
- relativ575 2y ago
  Kyiv would still be the right location. Russia want anything that may distract the world's attention from the crimes they commit everyday in Ukraine.
  - vkou 2y ago
    Russia's aggression against Ukraine, started a decade ago, the war on Palestinians has been going on for ~55 years.
    - yakshaving_jgt 2y ago
      I don’t think it’s right to make comparisons like this. But if you really want to go there, have you tried comparing the death toll? In Ukraine, it’s likely around three quarters of a million dead in two years.
    - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
      This comparison is irrelevant to the conversation. But even otherwise it is misleading and leaves out lots of history. The modern state of Israel has existed for that long - but if anything, it’s a war for Jewish people’s existence in land that was historically Jewish. And it wouldn’t be a “war” if Israel could exist peacefully and not constantly be threatened by terrorists. Most people don’t see a problem with a war of self defense in response to October 7, so I’m not sure what you think would happen if “warhawks” saw the “consequences” of their work. If anything, this is a low casualty conflict compared to most.
      - vkou 2y ago
        I'm referring to the settlement land grabs and displacements that happened after 1967, not to its existence of either 1947 or 1967 borders. (Which have their own humanitarian problems, but that's something else.)
- ordinaryradical 2y ago
  If you don’t want to build weapons because you don’t like the variety of ways they may be wielded, that’s a valid and reasonable ethical stance. If you don’t want to build anything that could ever potentially be used in the manufacture of those weapons, you probably shouldn’t be building open source software or contributing anything to do with any programming language at all.
  - vkou 2y ago
    I will point out that I am well aware of, and respect the stance that bad things done multiple-degrees-removed-from-you are not, like, entirely your responsibility. Or even necessarily your responsibility at all. I did, however, have to expand on the concept that it's very easy to have strong opinions about war when you yourself are sheltered from the consequences of it.
  - klausa 2y ago
    I think there's a big difference between "being used by" and "being active members of the community". Open Source means you can't really prohibit Anduril from using your projects; but _welcoming_ them and their money is a different matter altogether.
    - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      When the defense industry funds things they tend to go for architectures without a single point of failure and have the resources to create new things if the existing things are insufficient or adversarial. DARPA funding created the internet etc. Meanwhile if you were to get the defense industry to not use your product, they're not going to go out of business or do less of whatever you didn't like. They're going to bring the same money to someone like Oracle or Microsoft with no qualms about taking it -- or bring even more money to them, which is your tax money, as those companies charge quite a lot. This makes me suspicious that the people agitating for "don't take their money" are being subtly or not so subtly encouraged to do so by the people who want to take their money instead. After all, the historical norm is the opposite. Not just TCP/IP but Tor and SELinux and microprocessors and, considering that AT&T has long been a major defense contractor, transistors and lasers and solar panels and C and all the rest of it. Are the same people who want to refuse their money also inclined to refuse all of the other things it paid for? Would we be better off if the University of California never took a Unix license or created BSD because of where it came from?

ranger_danger 2y ago

Honestly I think military is just a scapegoat for these people, their real mission (like many before them) seems to be using the lack of CoC acceptance as their own weapon to justify bullying them for having opinions they don't like. That has always been the MO. They want the CoC to be able to silence undesired speech in the first place, and if they refuse, it becomes their strawman to allow them to keep arguing the same thing all over again. To me this reeks of the "paradox of intolerance" e.g. "you cannot be inclusive without allowing people to say things you don't like".

4gotunameagain 2y ago
While the phenomenon you describe certainly exists, it is vital to separate it from the phenomenon of not wanting to support the US "defense" sector. I do not identify as a leftist, and would not be considered one, but as an aerospace engineer I would never work for something that aids the US war machine. Those weapons are never used in "defense". Do they defend an unsustainable way of life ? Sure.
- yakshaving_jgt 2y ago
  The last time I saw one of these weapons in use was when I was standing in my kitchen in Ukraine and through the window I could see a missile take down a russian suicide drone. How is that not defence?
  - 4gotunameagain 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States#21st-century_wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_Uni... Ukraine is the only case. And let's not forget that the US is indirectly responsible for the Russian invasion. I know that it is very hard for you to see things objectively, and I am sorry for what you and your country is experiencing.
    - jagger27 2y ago
      The objectives of a land grabbing tyrant are what’s objective. You can’t be serious.

pxc 2y ago

Nobody is trying to stop them from using Nix or contributing code. The only objection is to their use of Nix community events for advertising through sponsorship of those events.