4 ms·

> Great Firewall This is what sovereignty looks like to you? It looks like totalitarianism to me.

by lostlogin 3y ago

Nasrudith 3y ago
Sovereignty is really just a fancy word for "do whatever the hell we want" made to sound noble.
- trog 3y ago
  Not wrong, but arguably, the entire basis for our civilisation since the dawn of time - it's why we've had societies forming from groups of like-minded people, evolving into city states and then nation states.
dgfitz 3y ago
I think that was the point being made. ;)
flawn 3y ago
Both are more close to each other than you think. Just different semantics but speaking of the same
- gleenn 3y ago
  The US allows nearly everything and is now blocking one thing. China is almost exactly the opposite. They aren't the same.
  - gverrilla 3y ago
    Regarding social media, US allows nearly everything because nearly everything is made there. Or might I say "allowed"? China is the same: they allow everybody in, as long as they play by their rules. The main difference is US being responsible for many massacres worldwide, and China being chill. Worth mentioning the incarceration data comparison aswell..
    - gleenn 3y ago
      China's rules are so far fromthe US's that I feel like your comment is distracting from the main point. China doesn't "let everything in," they let nearly nothing in. They are extremely insular. Maybe many companies made most of the the social media sites as you mentioned but that also maybe a direct result of China's extreme grip on the allowed sites there. You can't just pop up a new social media site there without extreme scrutiny from the Chinese government. That's why there aren't that many social media platforms there.
      - gverrilla 3y ago
        China is only smart. Third-world countries around the world should follow suit. Why allow for foreign companies that only have profit in mind without any regards to real life to operate freely? Why leave so much cash and data on the table? "Free market" and "free press" and "free speech" are only fantasies used when they are interesting.. The "american dream" is clearly only designed for americans and american companies.
        gleenn 3y ago
        "Leaving cash and data on the table" just indicates that you think any of this should be bought and sold. It's a social network, not a "sell people's private data network". I want to socialize online without forking over all my private data to the highest bidder. As an American, I don't think anyone associates The American Dream with data privacy. It's about having a standard notion of a desired family and house and pet and job. I think you are conflating many ideas we have. Just because all those ideas haven't been achieved or aren't implemented well in the modern tech world doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for them. An authoritarian state that dictates what is allowed and hords and sells data is certainly not the answer.
        gverrilla 3y ago
        USA in the most authoritarian state in the world, mate. Also the most belligerent and disrespectful of sovereignty. The american dream is only a propaganda piece.
  - asadotzler 3y ago
    Huawei would like a word.
insane_dreamer 3y ago
I agree with you. But it's the brand of sovereignty that China has pushed for years. The more other countries adopt it and do the same, the more it validates their own totalitarian approach. Also, you have to understand that it's never about "control" of the population or restricting freedom of speech (which, also ironically, is protected in the Chinese Constitution, yeah, really, look it up). Absolutely not. It's always about "public safety".

> Great Firewall This is what sovereignty looks like to you? It looks like totalitarianism to me.

Nasrudith 3y ago

Sovereignty is really just a fancy word for "do whatever the hell we want" made to sound noble.

trog 3y ago
Not wrong, but arguably, the entire basis for our civilisation since the dawn of time - it's why we've had societies forming from groups of like-minded people, evolving into city states and then nation states.

dgfitz 3y ago

I think that was the point being made. ;)

flawn 3y ago

Both are more close to each other than you think. Just different semantics but speaking of the same

gleenn 3y ago
The US allows nearly everything and is now blocking one thing. China is almost exactly the opposite. They aren't the same.
- gverrilla 3y ago
  Regarding social media, US allows nearly everything because nearly everything is made there. Or might I say "allowed"? China is the same: they allow everybody in, as long as they play by their rules. The main difference is US being responsible for many massacres worldwide, and China being chill. Worth mentioning the incarceration data comparison aswell..
  - gleenn 3y ago
    China's rules are so far fromthe US's that I feel like your comment is distracting from the main point. China doesn't "let everything in," they let nearly nothing in. They are extremely insular. Maybe many companies made most of the the social media sites as you mentioned but that also maybe a direct result of China's extreme grip on the allowed sites there. You can't just pop up a new social media site there without extreme scrutiny from the Chinese government. That's why there aren't that many social media platforms there.
    - gverrilla 3y ago
      China is only smart. Third-world countries around the world should follow suit. Why allow for foreign companies that only have profit in mind without any regards to real life to operate freely? Why leave so much cash and data on the table? "Free market" and "free press" and "free speech" are only fantasies used when they are interesting.. The "american dream" is clearly only designed for americans and american companies.
      - gleenn 3y ago
        "Leaving cash and data on the table" just indicates that you think any of this should be bought and sold. It's a social network, not a "sell people's private data network". I want to socialize online without forking over all my private data to the highest bidder. As an American, I don't think anyone associates The American Dream with data privacy. It's about having a standard notion of a desired family and house and pet and job. I think you are conflating many ideas we have. Just because all those ideas haven't been achieved or aren't implemented well in the modern tech world doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for them. An authoritarian state that dictates what is allowed and hords and sells data is certainly not the answer.
        gverrilla 3y ago
        USA in the most authoritarian state in the world, mate. Also the most belligerent and disrespectful of sovereignty. The american dream is only a propaganda piece.
- asadotzler 3y ago
  Huawei would like a word.

insane_dreamer 3y ago

I agree with you. But it's the brand of sovereignty that China has pushed for years. The more other countries adopt it and do the same, the more it validates their own totalitarian approach. Also, you have to understand that it's never about "control" of the population or restricting freedom of speech (which, also ironically, is protected in the Chinese Constitution, yeah, really, look it up). Absolutely not. It's always about "public safety".