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> If you want Tik Tok in the US, lower your middle finger. Reciprocity isn't the main reason. It's become a legitimate national security problem. We're no long

> If you want Tik Tok in the US, lower your middle finger. Reciprocity isn't the main reason. It's become a legitimate national security problem. We're no longer in the early 2000s where we could delude ourselves into thinking China wasn't a rival. They're clearly revisionist, with their aggressive approach to resolving border disputes and rhetoric about forceful reunification of Taiwan being on the table. They are bolstering strategic reserves of oil beyond normal peacetime levels, appointing Taiwan hawks to the Politburo, increasing PLA presence near Taiwan, running war games involving an embargo of Taiwan. They doubled their trade with Russia, filling in gaps left by sanctions. They are overtly hostile to the maritime sovereignty of a treaty ally of the US. The world has changed a lot, and few here realize it because they're stuck in this weird libertarian bubble where everyone's interests are the same and foreign policy doesn't exist and it's cynical intentions all the way down. You are all in for a rude awakening to wake you up from your hypnosis just as Europe was back in 2022. The US will legislate according to its interests, and that is what it's appropriately doing here.

atleastoptimal 2y ago
what happened in Europe in 2022?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- hackerlight 2y ago
  Russian invasion of Ukraine. Before this, the European polity were stuck in this "End of History" mindset where great power conflict was a relic from the past and everything could be solved through negotiation and institutions. The sooner laypeople realize we're in the Second Cold War (as the foreign policy types have) the less these kinds of moves (banning TikTok, restricting Nvidia exports to China) will come as a surprise, and you may even start to appreciate them.
mistermann 2y ago
> It's become a legitimate national security problem. What is the nature of the risk? > You are all in for a rude awakening to wake you up from your hypnosis... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox
- hackerlight 2y ago
  > What is the nature of the risk? The risk is information warfare. It's difficult to know whether they've used it for that purpose yet, because there's a lack of transparency, which is actually part of the problem. But regardless, the risk is unacceptable, especially if the Taiwan or Philippines/Vietnam situations boil over. There's no historical precedent of a rival having such massive control over domestic consumption of information. The one thing we do know from the history of conflict is that all available tools will get used for that purpose (e.g. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8197 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8197).
  - mistermann 2y ago
    Ok, at least you understand the real problem. I don't disagree, but for clarity, you appreciate this is totally contrary to the (formerly) popular "free speech" meme that used to be a source of pride for Americans? Isn't it a bit funny that America can't manage to educate[1] its citizens so they are resilient to propaganda? Do you think it is all that difficult to do, if the government set it as a priority"? [1] It's worse: they can't even try to. To me, this is peak hilarity, doubly so when combined with the conversations in this thread...which themselves are a consequence of the root problem. Oh my, the layers of irony.
    - ergocoder 2y ago
      > Isn't it a bit funny that America can't manage to educate[1] its citizens so they are resilient to propaganda? Since you imply it's not difficult to do, which country has educated their citizens to be resilient to propaganda?
DiogenesKynikos 2y ago
> their aggressive approach to resolving border disputes China hasn't fought a war in 40 years. In recent years, there have been some border skirmishes with India between unarmed soldiers (it's not even clear which side initiated them) and some naval confrontations about a few islands with no shots fired, but that's about it. Meanwhile, the US has been fighting wars all around the world.

atleastoptimal 2y ago

what happened in Europe in 2022?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
hackerlight 2y ago
Russian invasion of Ukraine. Before this, the European polity were stuck in this "End of History" mindset where great power conflict was a relic from the past and everything could be solved through negotiation and institutions. The sooner laypeople realize we're in the Second Cold War (as the foreign policy types have) the less these kinds of moves (banning TikTok, restricting Nvidia exports to China) will come as a surprise, and you may even start to appreciate them.

mistermann 2y ago

> It's become a legitimate national security problem. What is the nature of the risk? > You are all in for a rude awakening to wake you up from your hypnosis... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox

hackerlight 2y ago
> What is the nature of the risk? The risk is information warfare. It's difficult to know whether they've used it for that purpose yet, because there's a lack of transparency, which is actually part of the problem. But regardless, the risk is unacceptable, especially if the Taiwan or Philippines/Vietnam situations boil over. There's no historical precedent of a rival having such massive control over domestic consumption of information. The one thing we do know from the history of conflict is that all available tools will get used for that purpose (e.g. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8197 https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8197).
- mistermann 2y ago
  Ok, at least you understand the real problem. I don't disagree, but for clarity, you appreciate this is totally contrary to the (formerly) popular "free speech" meme that used to be a source of pride for Americans? Isn't it a bit funny that America can't manage to educate[1] its citizens so they are resilient to propaganda? Do you think it is all that difficult to do, if the government set it as a priority"? [1] It's worse: they can't even try to. To me, this is peak hilarity, doubly so when combined with the conversations in this thread...which themselves are a consequence of the root problem. Oh my, the layers of irony.
  - ergocoder 2y ago
    > Isn't it a bit funny that America can't manage to educate[1] its citizens so they are resilient to propaganda? Since you imply it's not difficult to do, which country has educated their citizens to be resilient to propaganda?

DiogenesKynikos 2y ago

> their aggressive approach to resolving border disputes China hasn't fought a war in 40 years. In recent years, there have been some border skirmishes with India between unarmed soldiers (it's not even clear which side initiated them) and some naval confrontations about a few islands with no shots fired, but that's about it. Meanwhile, the US has been fighting wars all around the world.