4 ms·

MDMA enhances empathy-like behaviors in mice via 5-HT release

47 points by kryster 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
zer00eyz 3y ago
No one who has taken a large dose of pure MDMA is shocked by this, or much of the positive research that is coming out about its impact in a controlled environment. Can you abuse MDMA? You sure can. But there are people who overindulge in a lot of things that cause harm, and some of them aren't even drugs (Gambling springs to mind). I think the fact that we're doing this research is progress longoverdue.
- jorl17 3y ago
  The research is focused on _how_ it works, rather than _if_ it works. The abstract itself begins by stating that "MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine) is a psychoactive drug with powerful prosocial effects." I had the same reaction reading the title :) (Although from what I gather, people have been taking supplements of 5-HTP to deal with the "post-MDMA depression" for ages, so...)
  - pizza234 3y ago
    > The research is focused on _how_ it works, rather than _if_ it works True, but it also has this very perplexing statement: > The assertion that it does function as a robust “empathogen” is largely based on anecdotal clinical reports, which conflict with several human subject studies that have commonly failed to reveal robust empathogenic effects. For example, MDMA appears to only mildly potentiate empathy (5, 6) in the multifaceted empathy test, in which subjects are asked to self-report levels of arousal after exposure to emotionally charged images Such assertion is largely based on million of actual users. The scientists' observation is completely disconnected from reality, to the point of being false; given this, I question very radically the validity of the referenced research.
    - zer00eyz 3y ago
      >>> in the multifaceted empathy test Histeria, electo shock, ice pick lobotomies, qualudes (addictive), benzodiazepines (addictive, nasty withdrawal), MAOI's (dont eat leftover or you will die), SSRI's (research is now showing that, these have no better outcome than placebo, and have nasty side effects and withdrawal), And more Benzodiaspines. > The scientists' observation is completely disconnected from reality, to the point of being false; given this, I question very radically the validity of the referenced research. And the research for Psychology and Psychiatry? Well that's at the heart of the reproducibility crisis. Not only in terms of replication, but outright fraud. There are people out there with disorders who can benefit from therapy and modern pharmacology. The fact that a large part of the industry is, for lack of a better word, rotten should shock no one.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
matrix87 3y ago
Fake MDMA is such a common thing, it really would benefit from being legalized from a harm reduction standpoint
- pizza234 3y ago
  Based on analyses in at two countries, fake MDMA (ecstasy pills without MDMA) is not common. MDMA content in the pills is often overstated, but still high (even too high, referring to the health organization guidelines); this is IMO the most damaging effect of lack of regulation - it's impossible to know how much MDMA one is going to ingest. I agree 100% that MDMA legalization is a benefit. As first step though, drug checking centers are a huge (and realistic) step forward.
  - stephenitis 3y ago
    The fillers and other ingredients used to form a street pressed pill are often unknown.
hereonout2 3y ago
> While MDMA is sometimes termed an “empathogen,” empirical studies have struggled to clearly demonstrate these effects Clearly the scientists carrying out these studies need to change their working hours. Visiting any European dance music venue on any given weekend in the last 30 years would have provided adequate demonstration of the effects.
- _3u10 3y ago
  Talking to those people mid week gives a different opinion on the effect the drug has.
  - hpeter 3y ago
    Yeah people on festivals usually look depressed and aggressive by day 3. What goes up must come down.
anigbrowl 3y ago
How is this news, people at raves knew about MDMA's effect on 5-HT receptors back in the 1990s. Lots of people would take 5-HTP after a party to fend off Tuesday morning blues. MDMA’s psychotherapeutic value may lie in its ability to strengthen the patient-therapist relationship, thereby facilitating talk therapy sessions That sounds like a recipe for transference (patients projecting feelings onto therapists, including romantic attractions). The mouse study seems well designed and all, just don't think this Skinner box approach to psychotherapy is the right approach.

47 points by kryster 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

No one who has taken a large dose of pure MDMA is shocked by this, or much of the positive research that is coming out about its impact in a controlled environment. Can you abuse MDMA? You sure can. But there are people who overindulge in a lot of things that cause harm, and some of them aren't even drugs (Gambling springs to mind). I think the fact that we're doing this research is progress longoverdue.

jorl17 3y ago
The research is focused on _how_ it works, rather than _if_ it works. The abstract itself begins by stating that "MDMA (3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine) is a psychoactive drug with powerful prosocial effects." I had the same reaction reading the title :) (Although from what I gather, people have been taking supplements of 5-HTP to deal with the "post-MDMA depression" for ages, so...)
- pizza234 3y ago
  > The research is focused on _how_ it works, rather than _if_ it works True, but it also has this very perplexing statement: > The assertion that it does function as a robust “empathogen” is largely based on anecdotal clinical reports, which conflict with several human subject studies that have commonly failed to reveal robust empathogenic effects. For example, MDMA appears to only mildly potentiate empathy (5, 6) in the multifaceted empathy test, in which subjects are asked to self-report levels of arousal after exposure to emotionally charged images Such assertion is largely based on million of actual users. The scientists' observation is completely disconnected from reality, to the point of being false; given this, I question very radically the validity of the referenced research.
  - zer00eyz 3y ago
    >>> in the multifaceted empathy test Histeria, electo shock, ice pick lobotomies, qualudes (addictive), benzodiazepines (addictive, nasty withdrawal), MAOI's (dont eat leftover or you will die), SSRI's (research is now showing that, these have no better outcome than placebo, and have nasty side effects and withdrawal), And more Benzodiaspines. > The scientists' observation is completely disconnected from reality, to the point of being false; given this, I question very radically the validity of the referenced research. And the research for Psychology and Psychiatry? Well that's at the heart of the reproducibility crisis. Not only in terms of replication, but outright fraud. There are people out there with disorders who can benefit from therapy and modern pharmacology. The fact that a large part of the industry is, for lack of a better word, rotten should shock no one.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

matrix87 3y ago

Fake MDMA is such a common thing, it really would benefit from being legalized from a harm reduction standpoint

pizza234 3y ago
Based on analyses in at two countries, fake MDMA (ecstasy pills without MDMA) is not common. MDMA content in the pills is often overstated, but still high (even too high, referring to the health organization guidelines); this is IMO the most damaging effect of lack of regulation - it's impossible to know how much MDMA one is going to ingest. I agree 100% that MDMA legalization is a benefit. As first step though, drug checking centers are a huge (and realistic) step forward.
- stephenitis 3y ago
  The fillers and other ingredients used to form a street pressed pill are often unknown.

hereonout2 3y ago

> While MDMA is sometimes termed an “empathogen,” empirical studies have struggled to clearly demonstrate these effects Clearly the scientists carrying out these studies need to change their working hours. Visiting any European dance music venue on any given weekend in the last 30 years would have provided adequate demonstration of the effects.

_3u10 3y ago
Talking to those people mid week gives a different opinion on the effect the drug has.
- hpeter 3y ago
  Yeah people on festivals usually look depressed and aggressive by day 3. What goes up must come down.

anigbrowl 3y ago

How is this news, people at raves knew about MDMA's effect on 5-HT receptors back in the 1990s. Lots of people would take 5-HTP after a party to fend off Tuesday morning blues. MDMA’s psychotherapeutic value may lie in its ability to strengthen the patient-therapist relationship, thereby facilitating talk therapy sessions That sounds like a recipe for transference (patients projecting feelings onto therapists, including romantic attractions). The mouse study seems well designed and all, just don't think this Skinner box approach to psychotherapy is the right approach.