3 ms·

I know this is not straight up a ban but it is a ban. Maybe Musk will buy it for pennies ona dollar and will turn my TikTok feed to my Twitter feed, which is fu

by mrtksn 3y ago

I know this is not straight up a ban but it is a ban. Maybe Musk will buy it for pennies ona dollar and will turn my TikTok feed to my Twitter feed, which is full of lunatics, conspiracy theories, racist, dog whistle racist, conman and Tesla boys. Maybe Zuck will buy it and will start showing hot girls, meals and tourist attractions like they do on Instagram? Since I'm not it the USA, maybe I will be able to use the global TikTok that I love. Hopefully. But this is not my main concern, my main concern is that you people act like everything is about business and the users are just cattle. 0 regards about the fact that lots and lots of people love this app. I'm one of them because its the last place on the internet where it feels like I'm not supposed to be outraged or spending money all the time. It feels like the old internet for me. Also, if the American users are lost, I will loose a lot of great content. I'm appalled that people here on HN have no ability to realize that they deal with real people and not only numbers in the analytics and the bank. It almost feels like there's no sense of identity here, no sese of persons who must have freedom to use and consume whatever they want. The argument goes "The Chinese are banning our social media companies, why would we do the same?". Why don't you rephrase it as "The Chinese communist part controls what apps and media the Chinese citizens can consume, why we don't control what Americans consume?". Can you really not see that taking away a product that people use is not only about companies? Are you really that blind to see that you can't claim being "the free world" by imitating China? Chinese government is not the ideal form of governance, please stop trying to be like China. Have some sense of personal freedoms.

Aloha 3y ago
I've watched people end up radicalized by content on TikTok - in ways that twitter, facebook, youtube, et al doesn't seem to do. You end up seeing the opening for a rabbit hole, and then suddenly you're very deep into said rabbit hole. I get your concerns over loss of something you enjoy - but the content is steerable enough by algorithm and addictive enough that a little twiddle of the knob, and suddenly a bunch of people believe some very harmful and hard to eliminate untruths.
- mrtksn 3y ago
  Really? People get radicalised on the American social media all the time. Then go shoot people, all the time. Numerous shootings were organised on 4Chan&similar. What did your radicalised ones did may I ask? I hope it's more than having the "wrong" opinions on hot topics. Can we please stop admiring China, Russia, DPRK and other similar countries where having the "wrong opinions" is considered radicalisation?
  - kelnos 3y ago
    If those wrong opinions are actively harmful to others and/or lead to policy decisions that are actively harmful to others, then maybe "radicalized" still isn't the appropriate term, but I hope we can agree it's a bad outcome.
    - mrtksn 3y ago
      What are examples of harmful opinions that harmed others?
- trafficante 3y ago
  Remember about a decade ago, when you’d read about YouTube’s algorithm creating an “alt-right pipeline”? Without making any judgments on the alt-right label, it was absolutely a real thing. Many documented cases showing how a fresh account could go from “Sesame Street, cooking videos, and CNN” on the default feed - and, within ~10 relatively innocuous clicks down the suggested video rabbit hole, the home feed would be full of Alex Jones tier stuff. TikTok is heavily reminiscent of the old YouTube. Just taking a few steps down the Free Palestine recommendation road will get you into “Happy Birthday, Uncle Adolf” videos (hyperbolic, but only slightly). I don’t blame certain parties for getting rather nervous over that. But I wish we could have some honesty from elected officials about why TikTok is suddenly such a pressing issue again. Whatever happens, I hope they’ve learned from YouTube’s earlier mistakes. In trying to break the alt-right pipeline, they ended up breaking the entire recommendation engine for years (tbf it’s a lot better now).
  - 3y ago
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> this is not straight up a ban but it is a ban It's really not. ByteDance isn't being sanctioned. TikTok.com will remain accessible to everyone in America. This is simply saying if it can't be sold to an American (EDIT: non-Chinese) buyer within a year, it gets removed from U.S. hosting and U.S. app stores. > you can't claim being "the free world" by imitating China Good thing we're not.
- mrtksn 3y ago
  Right, will be interesting if France demands that Instagram be sold to LVHM, UK demands that Twitter be sold to Virgin, Spain demands that Shopify be sold to Inditex, Turkey demands that Snapchat be sold to Erdoğan’s son-in-law or else. Totally not banning though, simply be removed from the AppStore if fail To sell.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > will be interesting if France demands that Instagram be sold to LVHM Or else be removed from French app stores yet remain available online? Without being sanctioned or blocked? ByteDance's CEO perjured himself in front of the Congress [1]. Meanwhile, you can't Google the 1989 Tianamen Square massacre in China because (a) Google is blocked, as in actually blocked, and (b) the very term is blocked. There are reasonable objections to this bill. Claiming we're stooping to China's level is not one of them. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexandralevine/2023/05/30/tiktok-creators-data-security-china/?sh=2a6d1e470488 https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexandralevine/2023/05/30/tikt...
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- jrochkind1 3y ago
  Does the legislation in fact specifically require sale to a US buyer, rather than a non-China buyer? Like EU buyer wouldn't fly? Oddly, the articles I've seen don't feel the need to specify there. Seems like a big difference to me, and requiring sale to specifically US buyer seems rather more of a takeover.

by mrtksn 3y ago

Aloha 3y ago

I've watched people end up radicalized by content on TikTok - in ways that twitter, facebook, youtube, et al doesn't seem to do. You end up seeing the opening for a rabbit hole, and then suddenly you're very deep into said rabbit hole. I get your concerns over loss of something you enjoy - but the content is steerable enough by algorithm and addictive enough that a little twiddle of the knob, and suddenly a bunch of people believe some very harmful and hard to eliminate untruths.

mrtksn 3y ago
Really? People get radicalised on the American social media all the time. Then go shoot people, all the time. Numerous shootings were organised on 4Chan&similar. What did your radicalised ones did may I ask? I hope it's more than having the "wrong" opinions on hot topics. Can we please stop admiring China, Russia, DPRK and other similar countries where having the "wrong opinions" is considered radicalisation?
- kelnos 3y ago
  If those wrong opinions are actively harmful to others and/or lead to policy decisions that are actively harmful to others, then maybe "radicalized" still isn't the appropriate term, but I hope we can agree it's a bad outcome.
  - mrtksn 3y ago
    What are examples of harmful opinions that harmed others?
trafficante 3y ago
Remember about a decade ago, when you’d read about YouTube’s algorithm creating an “alt-right pipeline”? Without making any judgments on the alt-right label, it was absolutely a real thing. Many documented cases showing how a fresh account could go from “Sesame Street, cooking videos, and CNN” on the default feed - and, within ~10 relatively innocuous clicks down the suggested video rabbit hole, the home feed would be full of Alex Jones tier stuff. TikTok is heavily reminiscent of the old YouTube. Just taking a few steps down the Free Palestine recommendation road will get you into “Happy Birthday, Uncle Adolf” videos (hyperbolic, but only slightly). I don’t blame certain parties for getting rather nervous over that. But I wish we could have some honesty from elected officials about why TikTok is suddenly such a pressing issue again. Whatever happens, I hope they’ve learned from YouTube’s earlier mistakes. In trying to break the alt-right pipeline, they ended up breaking the entire recommendation engine for years (tbf it’s a lot better now).
- 3y ago

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> this is not straight up a ban but it is a ban It's really not. ByteDance isn't being sanctioned. TikTok.com will remain accessible to everyone in America. This is simply saying if it can't be sold to an American (EDIT: non-Chinese) buyer within a year, it gets removed from U.S. hosting and U.S. app stores. > you can't claim being "the free world" by imitating China Good thing we're not.

mrtksn 3y ago
Right, will be interesting if France demands that Instagram be sold to LVHM, UK demands that Twitter be sold to Virgin, Spain demands that Shopify be sold to Inditex, Turkey demands that Snapchat be sold to Erdoğan’s son-in-law or else. Totally not banning though, simply be removed from the AppStore if fail To sell.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > will be interesting if France demands that Instagram be sold to LVHM Or else be removed from French app stores yet remain available online? Without being sanctioned or blocked? ByteDance's CEO perjured himself in front of the Congress [1]. Meanwhile, you can't Google the 1989 Tianamen Square massacre in China because (a) Google is blocked, as in actually blocked, and (b) the very term is blocked. There are reasonable objections to this bill. Claiming we're stooping to China's level is not one of them. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexandralevine/2023/05/30/tiktok-creators-data-security-china/?sh=2a6d1e470488 https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexandralevine/2023/05/30/tikt...
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
jrochkind1 3y ago
Does the legislation in fact specifically require sale to a US buyer, rather than a non-China buyer? Like EU buyer wouldn't fly? Oddly, the articles I've seen don't feel the need to specify there. Seems like a big difference to me, and requiring sale to specifically US buyer seems rather more of a takeover.