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it's the same thing. and you still have to manually sync to the exact same degree using these frameworks or not. state setting is part of the von neumann archit

it's the same thing. and you still have to manually sync to the exact same degree using these frameworks or not. state setting is part of the von neumann architecture itself so it appears directly in all programming languages you use. so the problem you say you're using them to solve isn't the problem.

eternityforest 2y ago
With Vue, I add an element to a list. With vanilla JS, I would have to add the item to the list, then get the parent element, then create a div containing a bunch of hardcoded stuff, give it an id, keep track of that id, insert the item, then when I remove the item I would have to remove the item from the list. That could double the amount of cod e needed in most stuff I do.
- blueprint 2y ago
  Vue is vanilla JS - it is a construct of vanilla JS - so it is not what I'm talking about when we talk about generations of languages etc. You still interact with it procedurally or imperatively. Overall, Vue is honest. React is decidedly not.
  - eternityforest 2y ago
    I don't have any direct experience with React, but it does seem to be overwhelmingly popular. I assume the devs making insanely complicated stuff at fortune 500
    - blueprint 2y ago
      that has nothing to do with it. There are a ton of React implementations, some by third parties, that are not complex. React has also changed majorly multiple times. I don't know how experienced you are, but that should tell you something (bad). It means they don't know what it really is and what they're building. That's another way of saying they don't know what they're doing. unless by complex, you mean that they're good at scamming people. Because that's pretty much what the company that made it is all about, in case you didn't notice.
      - eternityforest 2y ago
        Excessive breaking changes on a short time do seem like a pretty bad indicator of quality. It's not a framework I would use by choice, I've been working with Vue for many years, and I've also done some minor Lit and Svelte work. But it does seem like it's still very widely used, so I assume there must be something about it people really like. At the very least, the ecosystem and legacy stuff seems like enough to justify using it on some projects, although Vue seems to have caught up.
        blueprint 2y ago
        > But it does seem like it's still very widely used, so I assume there must be something about it people really like. this is very dangerous and flawed reasoning. There are many examples of where this goes horribly wrong. One of the nice ones is something called normalcy bias. but hey, let's just vote to murder Socrates again because he acknowledged that he was intentionally triggering us as an act of love.
    - eternityforest 2y ago
      Oops... this comment got cut off somehow. I assume all the devs at the large companies know what they're doing with react, since I rarely hear that much complaining, so I suppose it's well suited for very large projects.
      - blueprint 2y ago
        naive or crazy- I'll let you choose :p

eternityforest 2y ago

With Vue, I add an element to a list. With vanilla JS, I would have to add the item to the list, then get the parent element, then create a div containing a bunch of hardcoded stuff, give it an id, keep track of that id, insert the item, then when I remove the item I would have to remove the item from the list. That could double the amount of cod e needed in most stuff I do.

blueprint 2y ago
Vue is vanilla JS - it is a construct of vanilla JS - so it is not what I'm talking about when we talk about generations of languages etc. You still interact with it procedurally or imperatively. Overall, Vue is honest. React is decidedly not.
- eternityforest 2y ago
  I don't have any direct experience with React, but it does seem to be overwhelmingly popular. I assume the devs making insanely complicated stuff at fortune 500
  - blueprint 2y ago
    that has nothing to do with it. There are a ton of React implementations, some by third parties, that are not complex. React has also changed majorly multiple times. I don't know how experienced you are, but that should tell you something (bad). It means they don't know what it really is and what they're building. That's another way of saying they don't know what they're doing. unless by complex, you mean that they're good at scamming people. Because that's pretty much what the company that made it is all about, in case you didn't notice.
    - eternityforest 2y ago
      Excessive breaking changes on a short time do seem like a pretty bad indicator of quality. It's not a framework I would use by choice, I've been working with Vue for many years, and I've also done some minor Lit and Svelte work. But it does seem like it's still very widely used, so I assume there must be something about it people really like. At the very least, the ecosystem and legacy stuff seems like enough to justify using it on some projects, although Vue seems to have caught up.
      - blueprint 2y ago
        > But it does seem like it's still very widely used, so I assume there must be something about it people really like. this is very dangerous and flawed reasoning. There are many examples of where this goes horribly wrong. One of the nice ones is something called normalcy bias. but hey, let's just vote to murder Socrates again because he acknowledged that he was intentionally triggering us as an act of love.
  - eternityforest 2y ago
    Oops... this comment got cut off somehow. I assume all the devs at the large companies know what they're doing with react, since I rarely hear that much complaining, so I suppose it's well suited for very large projects.
    - blueprint 2y ago
      naive or crazy- I'll let you choose :p