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Crazy, all the spying we do and we can't provide any definitive proof of anything yet we're jumping to banning a company. Looks like all that red scare stuff is
by bluSCALE4 2y ago
Crazy, all the spying we do and we can't provide any definitive proof of anything yet we're jumping to banning a company. Looks like all that red scare stuff isn't a thing of the past, eh? And we all get to suffer for it. From losing a platform, to facing shadow bans with no recourse, to laws being passed that continue to stamp out our civil liberties to the point that we forget they were even there, what's it all for?
- MaxHoppersGhost 2y agoChina can and already has used tiktok to influence the U.S. population. Just because the US spies a bunch doesn’t mean we shouldn’t protect our best interests.
- blackoil 2y agoYou misread OP. With all spies they should have found some evidence of CCP trying to influence.
- tempestn 2y agoThey may well have done. It seems a lot of lawmakers moved toward the opinion of banning tiktok after receiving classified intelligence briefings.
- luyu_wu 2y agoAs a non-american (Canadian) citizen, I'm genuinely curious why this evidence can't be made public? Wouldn't that be a far better way to end this debate and un-fracture opinions?
- tempestn 2y agoI'm Canadian too, but my guess would be that sharing what they know publicly would give away too much about how they learned it, and would give adversaries a better chance of hiding more in the future.
- chamsom 2y agoPlease cite a well written study to back up your claim that is not an opinion piece or some state sanctioned message, from any country.
- j0ba 2y agoI'm writing one right now, just waiting on the CCP to get back to me with their internal communications and commit history at tiktok which will prove this. /s
- chamsom 2y agoYou contradict yourself by asserting "arbitrary action X, which will prove this" implying the party is guilty by mere speculation about unknowns.
- goliathDown 2y agoThat's a bit of a ridiculous standard. Mostly because I don't think China is liable to hand out the records they've been gathering to cross check findings from other study.
- chamsom 2y agoYou don't need records conduct research if a specific message is being spread on TikTok against chance, to at least back up an unsubstantiated theory — even if not practical in the court of law. For anyone who uses TikTok regularly, it's evident there frequently political content that outright contradict's China's positions, spreading unfettered through the platform.
- autoexec 2y agoAs if US apps don't influence the population of other nations. Should every US company be required to divest in every other nation where they have users?
- jimbob45 2y agoCame here to say this. The US owns Apple and Google, both of which are tremendously more influential than TikTok could ever hope to be. Turnabout is fair play.
- Grazester 2y agoGoogle is banned in China and China is already taking steps to limit use of Apple hardware
- autoexec 2y agoGoogle left China because they didn't want to play by China's rules. Whatever their motivations, I'm glad google stood up to them, but we're not even accusing China of refusing to follow any particular US law. I don't think the US getting our own version of the Great Firewall of China is a good thing.
- Aloisius 2y agoAnd TikTok is free to leave if they don't want to play by our rules that companies with large numbers of American users can't be substantially owned or controlled by a foreign adversary and still do business with US companies. Also, who said we're going to firewall them?
- luckydata 2y agosee, this is what is great about soft power. If you use it right who is not straight up an enemy will probably give you a lot of leeway as long as mutually beneficial. China is... not doing that. The Tik Tok ban is years late and I don't know why any US citizen could not understand why it's the right thing to do, unless on the payroll of the Chinese government.
- JohnMakin 2y agoThey use Meta systems to do the same thing? What is special about Tiktok?
- j0ba 2y agoThey control what is boosted on tiktok
- JohnMakin 2y agoDo you have any evidence of that?
- j0ba 2y agohttps://www.forbes.com/sites/emilybaker-white/2023/01/20/tiktoks-secret-heating-button-can-make-anyone-go-viral/?sh=28c12bd26bfd https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilybaker-white/2023/01/20/tik...
- JohnMakin 2y agoThis is a common practice on social media sites and is not evidence for your claim.
- tedivm 2y agoWe should block the behavior, not target specific companies or groups because we don't like them. If influencing our elections is bad (and I agree it is) then we should ban corporations from influencing our elections. If we think collecting and aggregating a bunch of data on people is bad we should ban that, rather than picking a single company to ban from doing it while allowing a bunch of others too. I actually truly believe we should do this- a GDPR style bill for the US that protects people's right to privacy and limits corporations ability to influence our governments. The fact that we know how easy it is for companies to do this but are just upset that a specific company is doing it tells me we're approaching this in the wrong way.
- zeroonetwothree 2y agoHow could we ensure that ByteDance follows such a law? It’s unlikely they would let us perform the necessary level of auditing. I’m not against such a privacy law but I think it’s orthogonal to the TikTok issue.
- IncreasePosts 2y agoDid anyone claim anything happened that would require definitive proof? The argument was that a Chinese company having that kind of ability to reach US citizens is too dangerous in and of itself to let it stand.
- giraffe_lady 2y agoBut assumes that american companies having that power is not. That's the red scare part.
- IncreasePosts 2y agoThere's ample evidence of China and other countries attempting to influence American events using social media and other means. It's not a red scare if it is true. And it's not a red scare because China isn't being targeted here because they are Communist - they are being targeted because they are a geopolitical adversary. Russia would be treated in the same manner if some killer app came out of there, and they aren't Communist.
- j0ba 2y agoAmerican companies are subject to US law and US citizens are protected by US law. What's the equivalent protection China provides?
- bluSCALE4 2y agoShadow bans.
- CapmCrackaWaka 2y agoYou’re misconstruing the argument. American citizens don’t elect Chinese politicians, I don’t want the Chinese government to have my data. I don’t want the American government to either, but at least I can vote for my American government.
- bluSCALE4 2y ago
- EduardoBautista 2y agoFrom what I understand it’s not just about spying. The Chinese Communist Party knows how harmful and addictive the algorithm is that the Chinese version of the app focuses on showing higher quality content (quality as judged by them). So if they know it’s harmful, they have an interest on showing low quality content to the western audience and possibly psychologically and intellectually affect an entire generation.
- pphysch 2y ago> The Chinese Communist Party knows how harmful and addictive the algorithm that the Chinese version of the app focuses on showing higher quality content This is pure conspiracy theory. You think the nation that produces and loves Grand Theft Auto needs a relatively puritan foreign country, where certain depictions of death are restricted in media, weed and porn are totally illegal, to push such debauchery on the American people?
- EduardoBautista 2y agoThey were the first ones to do it at scale. Before, you had to seek out the debauchery. TikTok is saying, don’t worry, we have hundreds of scrollable hours waiting for you, just keep scrolling.
- pphysch 2y agoTwitter, Instagram, Reddit also are infinitely doomscrollable, with equally if not more inane content. Vine hit the American streets long before TikTok before it was killed by mismanagement.
- EduardoBautista 2y agoVine had no where near as good of a recommendation algorithm as TikTok. Reddit for over a decade relied on self-curation and upvoting to determine what to show you. TikTok curated content without the need for a user to do anything else than scroll. You can have a remarkably well personalized TikTok experience without liking, following, or saving any content.
- flohofwoe 2y agoOTH, western social media platforms cannot operate in China, why should Chinese social media platforms be allowed to operate in the western world? Even without the whole "spy angle" it makes a lot of sense, trade wars like this happen all the time also between western nations. If China opens up their market, things can be reconsidered.
- mchanson 2y agoThere are a lot of things China does which limits US reach within their country that the US, as a more free society, would not be a good fit for the US. This seems to me to be one of things we probably should not have done.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- asadotzler 2y agoWe don't need proof. We didn't have proof of anything 90 years ago when we banned foreign ownership of our TV and radio stations. Are you really this ignorant to US history? Do they not teach US history or civics in school any more?