3 ms·

Intermittent renewables mean any too short metric is essentially a gamed cherry-pick. Give me your lowest monthly average, please.

pmlnr 3y ago
https://grid.iamkate.com https://grid.iamkate.com -> Past Year
sebzim4500 3y ago
You can see here[1] that the trend is extremely good. 25.1 GW of fossil fuel power in 2012 compared to 9.3 GW now. IIRC the UK was the first western power to half its CO2 output compared to its peak. [1] https://grid.iamkate.com/ https://grid.iamkate.com/
- NikkiA 3y ago
  We will also have 0% coal by the end of the year (Radcliffe upon Soar has to shut by the end of October IIRC), by law.
mft_ 3y ago
Talk about letting perfect be the enemy of good...
- Ericson2314 3y ago
  Complete misunderstanding. I am not saying that "Gas and coal accounted for just 2.4% of power generation for an hour last week" is good but not good enough, I am saying that it is meaningless. The problem here is not the degree progress, but the choice of measurement. I will happily celebrate incremental progress with the measurements that I think actually matter.
  - mft_ 3y ago
    I'm not misunderstanding anything, I just disagree with you. You're totally right that it's a relatively poor metric, but assuming we agree it's unlikely that the energy companies actively 'gamed' the metric (e.g. by agreeing to shut down gas and coal generation for that hour) it's still better to have that result, than to not have it.
yuumei 3y ago
66% maximum fossil fuel usage last year: https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-fossil-fuels-fall-to-record-low-2-4-of-british-electricity/ https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-fossil-fuels-fall-to-re...
- Ericson2314 3y ago
  OK, Good! I'm not saying there is no progress, I am saying that the stat that this article chose to lead with is not a useful indicator of progress.
  - yuumei 3y ago
    Very much, I think the Guardian could do well by including the graph with min/max/average
cinntaile 3y ago
> Gas and coal accounted for just 2.4% of power generation for an hour last week, > earlier this month the share of fossil fuels in the generation mix taken over an entire day fell to a record low of 6.4%, on 5 April. > 15 years ago, when gas and coal power plants made up 75% of the electricity mix, while renewables accounted for only 2%. Last year only a third of Great Britain’s electricity came from fossil fuels, compared with 40% from renewables. There are several metrics in the article, not just short ones.
mhandley 3y ago
As renewables started to increase, people were saying it wouldn't be possible to keep the grid stable once renewables reached 50%, due to the lack of spinning mass in fossil generators. That obviously has been proven wrong. If I understand correctly, they could have run without any fossil sources on a few occasions recently, but keeping some helps with grid stability. Next step is to reduce fossil fuels to zero for some short periods. But there will be some spinning mass still in nuclear and in biomass generation. Eventually the biomass needs to go too, but each step is good and not completely trivial to achieve.
gwbas1c 3y ago
Celebrate the small victories: Progress is the sum of many small accomplishments.

pmlnr 3y ago

https://grid.iamkate.com https://grid.iamkate.com -> Past Year

sebzim4500 3y ago

You can see here[1] that the trend is extremely good. 25.1 GW of fossil fuel power in 2012 compared to 9.3 GW now. IIRC the UK was the first western power to half its CO2 output compared to its peak. [1] https://grid.iamkate.com/ https://grid.iamkate.com/

NikkiA 3y ago
We will also have 0% coal by the end of the year (Radcliffe upon Soar has to shut by the end of October IIRC), by law.

mft_ 3y ago

Talk about letting perfect be the enemy of good...

Ericson2314 3y ago
Complete misunderstanding. I am not saying that "Gas and coal accounted for just 2.4% of power generation for an hour last week" is good but not good enough, I am saying that it is meaningless. The problem here is not the degree progress, but the choice of measurement. I will happily celebrate incremental progress with the measurements that I think actually matter.
- mft_ 3y ago
  I'm not misunderstanding anything, I just disagree with you. You're totally right that it's a relatively poor metric, but assuming we agree it's unlikely that the energy companies actively 'gamed' the metric (e.g. by agreeing to shut down gas and coal generation for that hour) it's still better to have that result, than to not have it.

yuumei 3y ago

66% maximum fossil fuel usage last year: https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-fossil-fuels-fall-to-record-low-2-4-of-british-electricity/ https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-fossil-fuels-fall-to-re...

Ericson2314 3y ago
OK, Good! I'm not saying there is no progress, I am saying that the stat that this article chose to lead with is not a useful indicator of progress.
- yuumei 3y ago
  Very much, I think the Guardian could do well by including the graph with min/max/average

cinntaile 3y ago

> Gas and coal accounted for just 2.4% of power generation for an hour last week, > earlier this month the share of fossil fuels in the generation mix taken over an entire day fell to a record low of 6.4%, on 5 April. > 15 years ago, when gas and coal power plants made up 75% of the electricity mix, while renewables accounted for only 2%. Last year only a third of Great Britain’s electricity came from fossil fuels, compared with 40% from renewables. There are several metrics in the article, not just short ones.

mhandley 3y ago

As renewables started to increase, people were saying it wouldn't be possible to keep the grid stable once renewables reached 50%, due to the lack of spinning mass in fossil generators. That obviously has been proven wrong. If I understand correctly, they could have run without any fossil sources on a few occasions recently, but keeping some helps with grid stability. Next step is to reduce fossil fuels to zero for some short periods. But there will be some spinning mass still in nuclear and in biomass generation. Eventually the biomass needs to go too, but each step is good and not completely trivial to achieve.

gwbas1c 3y ago

Celebrate the small victories: Progress is the sum of many small accomplishments.