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So streaming services can save money on bandwidth

yellow_postit 3y ago
Or low connectivity scenarios that pushes more local processing. I think it a bit unimaginative to see no use cases for this.
- constantcrying 3y ago
  There is no use case, because it is a stupid idea. Downscaling then reconstructing is a stupid idea for exactly the same reasons why downscaling for compression is a bad idea. The issue isn't NN reconstruction, but that you are reconstructing the wrong data.
  - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
    if the nn is part of the codec, you can choose to only downscale the regions that get reconstructed correctly.
    - constantcrying 3y ago
      Why would you not let the NN work on the compressed data? That is actually where the information is.
      - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
        that's like asking why you don't train a llm on gzipped text. the compressed data is much harder to reason about
prmoustache 3y ago
Meh. I think upscaling framerate would be more useful.
- turnsout 3y ago
  TVs already do this… and it's basically a bad thing
constantcrying 3y ago
That's absurd. I think anybody is aware that it is far superior to e.g. compress in the frequency domain than to down sample your image. If you don't believe me just compare a JPEG compressed image with the same image of the same size compressed with down sampling. You will notice a literal night and day difference. Down sampling is a bad way to do compression. It makes no sense to do NN reconstruction on that if you could have compressed that image better and reconstructed from that data.
- p1esk 3y ago
  Are you saying that when Netflix streams a 480p version of a 4k movie to my TV they do not perform downsampling?
  - constantcrying 3y ago
    Yes. Down sampling makes only sense if you store per pixel data, which is obviously a dumb idea. You get a stream for 480p which contains frames which were compressed from the source files, or the 4k version. At some point there might have been down sampling involved, but you never actually get any of that data, you get the compressed version of those.
    - p1esk 3y ago
      Not sure if I’m being dumb, or if it’s you not explaining it clearly: if Neflix produced low resolution frames from high resolution (4k to 480p), and if these 480p frames are what my TV is receiving - are you saying it’s not downsampling, and my TV would not benefit from this new upsampling method?
      - constantcrying 3y ago
        Your TV never receives per pixel data. Why would you use a NN to enhance the data which your TV has constructed instead of enhancing the data it actually receives?

Or low connectivity scenarios that pushes more local processing. I think it a bit unimaginative to see no use cases for this.

constantcrying 3y ago
There is no use case, because it is a stupid idea. Downscaling then reconstructing is a stupid idea for exactly the same reasons why downscaling for compression is a bad idea. The issue isn't NN reconstruction, but that you are reconstructing the wrong data.
- adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
  if the nn is part of the codec, you can choose to only downscale the regions that get reconstructed correctly.
  - constantcrying 3y ago
    Why would you not let the NN work on the compressed data? That is actually where the information is.
    - adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
      that's like asking why you don't train a llm on gzipped text. the compressed data is much harder to reason about

prmoustache 3y ago

Meh. I think upscaling framerate would be more useful.

turnsout 3y ago
TVs already do this… and it's basically a bad thing

constantcrying 3y ago

That's absurd. I think anybody is aware that it is far superior to e.g. compress in the frequency domain than to down sample your image. If you don't believe me just compare a JPEG compressed image with the same image of the same size compressed with down sampling. You will notice a literal night and day difference. Down sampling is a bad way to do compression. It makes no sense to do NN reconstruction on that if you could have compressed that image better and reconstructed from that data.

p1esk 3y ago
Are you saying that when Netflix streams a 480p version of a 4k movie to my TV they do not perform downsampling?
- constantcrying 3y ago
  Yes. Down sampling makes only sense if you store per pixel data, which is obviously a dumb idea. You get a stream for 480p which contains frames which were compressed from the source files, or the 4k version. At some point there might have been down sampling involved, but you never actually get any of that data, you get the compressed version of those.
  - p1esk 3y ago
    Not sure if I’m being dumb, or if it’s you not explaining it clearly: if Neflix produced low resolution frames from high resolution (4k to 480p), and if these 480p frames are what my TV is receiving - are you saying it’s not downsampling, and my TV would not benefit from this new upsampling method?
    - constantcrying 3y ago
      Your TV never receives per pixel data. Why would you use a NN to enhance the data which your TV has constructed instead of enhancing the data it actually receives?