5 ms·

Suicide Rates Are Now Higher Among Young Adults Than the Middle-Aged

57 points by throwup238 3y ago

bequanna 3y ago
What do the kids have to look forward to? The reality is that homeownership and other pieces of the American dream are far out of reach for many of them and will be for the foreseeable future. Couple that with the constant stream of climate doomerism they've been fed for the past decade and we shouldn't be surprised the kids aren't alright.
- addicted 3y ago
  “Climate doomerism” has been around for at least 3 decades. Heck, the last decade has seen more good news on the climate front than any decade before, with wind and solar energy becoming cheaper and growing faster than any other source of energy, EVs actually not just becoming a reality but an inevitability, and most countries setting carbon reduction goals something which didn’t even sound possible a few decades ago.
  - blankx32 3y ago
    Tell the media as that’s not their narrative
andrewstuart 3y ago
In Australia there’s no reason for young people to have hope about the future. The rich, the old, the vested interests have an iron grip on the wealth, the housing, the politics and as a result, climate policy. What’s the good bit about the future for young people, can someone tell me? Unless of course you are a child of the rich. I heard this generation is called “generation rent”, soon enough “generation tent”.
- muro 3y ago
  That's an unnecessarily pessimistic take. There is plenty of jobs, they pay well compared to almost anywhere in the world, the country is huge with lots of natural resources and a small population. There are amazing beaches, nature and if things go bad, some social safety net. With that country size, cheap housing is possible - just not in the most desirable locations.
  - andrewstuart 3y ago
    You sound like a home owner. Did I guess right?
    - muro 3y ago
      No.
  - gregoryl 3y ago
    Our higher salaries are a insufficient to offset the current cost of living, which is growing at a faster rate. Our country is physically large, with a low population density. Unless you are willing to sacrifice significantly (ie. Access to medical care), your are obligated to live near one of our (few!) cities. We sell our natural resources to foreign interests, who automate extraction and pay literally zero tax. The social safety net is significantly below the poverty line, and is stagnant in the face of the increasing cost of living.
  - bingbingbing777 3y ago
    https://youtu.be/kt7zARB_sxc https://youtu.be/kt7zARB_sxc It's extremely hard to make friends here, our culture is a mixture of abuse (physical and sexual), doing drugs, drinking alcohol and getting drunk and gambling. There's no innovation here, house prices are insane, food is expensive.
  - magnetowasright 3y ago
    Oh, living in 'less desirable' locations! Why haven't any of us thought of that! I'll spread the news! What do you consider 'cheap' housing? What are these fabled jobs where this cheap housing is? Can't make lattes for wankers, I mean, bankers while wfh. Will these jobs pay the rent for a single room in this cheap housing? Will they lease to parents? Where is it that we have all missed, right under our noses, that could magically fix our housing crisis by expanding our cities into? Even if the builders in this country weren't challenging each other for who can build the lowest quality, shortest lasting boxes of garbage? Where? Again ignoring the ridiculous amount of empty already built homes that exist as a blip in someone's property portfolio rather than as a thing for people to live in. A social safety net? One that unlawfully (and at great cost) issued (wrong!) automated debt notices to some our most vulnerable?[0] The same one that was willing to pay $12000 per recipient to administer 'cashless debit cards'[1] which block people on said safety net from using the despicably small pittance they get at farmers' markets, on second hand furniture, or any of the only other ways people miraculously manage to stay alive while on it? $12000 a year is about as much as you can get from welfare payments and instead of just doubling the pay they'd prefer to just leave people to starve while in debt. If you can even get approved for getting welfare in the first place! The suffering is the point. Our public health system is extremely underfunded. It's a joke. Still not as gutted as the poor NHS (...yet). If corporations paid tax, if we stopped throwing billions at submarines that will never be made, we could rival the world's best, but we choose not to. Our famous beaches are essentially a luxury at this point. It takes hours to get to them. Nobody can afford the fuel or the time and energy. I do thank my lucky stars that I'm here instead of somewhere that charges hundreds of dollars (but not if you apply to 17 different coupon places, I swear!) for an asthma inhaler but this 'lucky country' crap is extremely ignorant of the realities most of us face here. The worst part is that so many people here believe the despair so many of us face is 'unnecessarily pessimistic' and would rather whinge about that than consider for a second that the despair might be justified. It's almost treason according to murdoch media if you suggest that things don't actually need to be this hard. It's 'Unaustrayan' to have feelings or be poor or sick or homeless or different or to ask more of our country who actually could be making things as easy as you suggest. Again we choose not to. Oh and this doesn't even cover if you're Black (Indigenous Australians are the most incarcerated population on earth; I'll leave that to you to look up), otherwise a person of colour, religious but not Christian, queer, disabled, chronically ill, old, have school-aged kids, or live in properly rural or remote areas. Honestly being a middle class white woman is pretty scary here, too. Being a man who doesn't or doesn't want to live up to the ridiculous hyper-masculinity standard is also scary. Our rates of suicide in men, particularly rural ones, are overwhelming and have been for ages. Our nature is wonderful (...in the vanishingly small parts where we haven't utterly destroyed it). You've got that right. Bloody roos, though. Boxing rats who can go highway speeds but choose to jump in front of cars instead. Funny buggers lol. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robodebt_scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robodebt_scheme [1] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-05/alp-drops-support-for-cashless-welfare-card-expansion/9229596 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-05/alp-drops-support-for...
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- viraptor 3y ago
  That's extreme. There's so many worse place to be than Australia. I mean, sure, there's a lot of issues for the future, (there always were) but there's a lot of good things in life you don't have to pay for. Go for a walk with a friend for the start, it's nice outside. You don't have to be anywhere close to rich to have a nice life.
  - andrewstuart 3y ago
    Do you own a home?
    - viraptor 3y ago
      I rented for almost my whole life. The change is convenient, but really not life changing. Definitely not "life worth living" level changing.
      - andrewstuart 3y ago
        The point is made. Anyone who says "cheer up, it's OK, all is great in Australia, you just need to smile, take a walk, smell the roses!", they always own a house.
        addicted 3y ago
        I go to real life protests for both climate change and for better housing policy in the U.S. so I’m hardly someone who believes there are no problems. And I’m also not a homeowner. But the idea that someone, anyone, living in Australia has a worse outlook in life than 99% of humanity is absolutely not true. But I have seen enough of that in person here as well, so I’m not questioning either the actual feeling or the validity of the feeling. However, something appears to have changed where younger folks in a certain set of circumstances feel despair when someone of the same age under similar circumstances even a decade ago might not have felt that way. I have to believe social media and the expectations it creates but also the way it bombards young people with issues that they can do nothing about today has some responsibility here.
jarbus 3y ago
I fell into the 20-24 age and was deeply suicidal last year. There were two main factors at the time, aside from my usual depression 1) horrendous and soul-crushing job market that constantly signaled to me that I had no value 2) incredibly skewed expectations of success due to the internet I’ve moved past it for now, luckily, but I’m seeing a lot of people struggle, particularly men, and get left behind, with virtually nobody trying to make us feel valued or supported on the societal level. Many men, especially those without prospects for getting married/having kids, really don’t have a good reason to go on except pure hedonism. And that can only go so far.
- swatcoder 3y ago
  > Many men, especially those without prospects for getting married/having kids, really don’t have a good reason to go on except pure hedonism. And that can only go so far. FWIW, the missing element in this framing is real, substantive community. Not conversational or ephemeral community like you find online, but the kind of substantive community that engenders a network of mutual support. It's not the only way through life, but people naturally get momentum behind them when they can take on meaningful responsibilities towards others. Caring for a partner and kids is one way of taking on those kinds of responsibilities, but you're right that this isn't readily available to everyone. It never has been, really, but that can be especially apparent to people these days. Work can be another way, but it needs to feel like you're actually helping something in a way that matters, and many people don't have those opportunities for work either. Much work is towards notoriously bullshit ends, and plenty of employers and clients can be degrading rather than appreciative. But if you read your own post, or walk out your door and see your own neighbors, it's not hard to find people that need help. That's where the giant ocean of fulfillment is hiding in plain sight. Consumer-individualist culture just sort of forgot to teach people that, so one way to be practice it is to help people who need "a reason to go on" to find it in helping others themselves.
  - prewett 3y ago
    I agree that we need real, substantive community. However, I'm skeptical of the helping-others-builds-community narrative. Shared service can create community, but to be sustainable the service is something that fills you up. I've done a lot of soup kitchen, helping at food banks, etc. work, and it's always been sort of a chore, despite doing it because of a strongly held value. Whereas I can spend a lot of time practicing beautiful choral music for a free concert and it's totally sustainable. Also, community is built among peers, but giving help is not necessarily a peer activity (depends on the help, how reciprocal the help is, pre-existing relationships, etc.). But helping "people that need help" is not the same as taking meaningful responsibilities. If I take "meaningful responsibilities" towards my neighbors, that's likely to look like co-dependency unless there's some sort of meaningful responsibilities I'm receiving back, or a community (in the social, not geographic/cartographic sense) that that we are already both part of. In fact, it's hard to take on meaningful responsibilities if you are not already a member of some community. (Which is not a bad thing; you don't usually make someone new the leader of the group, and there are good reasons for that)
searealist 3y ago
This is only true for young adult men. Middle-aged women still have higher suicide rates than young adult women.
- benterix 3y ago
  What do you mean by "still"? Men have higher suicide rates in general all over the world.
  - malicka 3y ago
    By “still,” they meant that the article’s observation about younger men being more suicidal than older men doesn’t apply likewise to younger women & older women. So older women still are more suicidal than younger women.
  - searealist 3y ago
    Re-read what I wrote.
- tastyfreeze 3y ago
  Sadly, women that don't land a man before beauty fades are far more likely to end up lonely. Having responsibility gives men purpose. Having children gives women purpose. Lessons that should be taught not left to learning by experience. If left to experience, many don't learn it.
  - locopati 3y ago
    that's a pretty broad generalization. are you speaking of a specific culture?
    - tastyfreeze 3y ago
      It is broad because it applies to most humans throughout history regardless of culture.
      - 3y ago
EdwardDiego 3y ago
In my country, NZ, it's always been that way - men aged 15 - 30 are disproportionately higher in suicide statistics. There's varying theories why, but our culture's emphasis on the "strong silent stoic man" is above and beyond the quiet stoicism expected of men in general. That stoicism/quiet desperation was often used to sell products. E.g., the Speights (a terrible beer) Southern Man... https://youtu.be/q25aJ6UNvhw https://youtu.be/q25aJ6UNvhw https://youtu.be/Su0MCBim7FA https://youtu.be/Su0MCBim7FA Barry Crump's "Good Keen Man" deerculler persona used to sell Hiluxes... https://youtu.be/iqwnr2sza_o?si=mmRvEiEMa6pLKDbo https://youtu.be/iqwnr2sza_o?si=mmRvEiEMa6pLKDbo https://youtu.be/_yj1gff-ndc?si=mcGjE44Ys20g5ILz https://youtu.be/_yj1gff-ndc?si=mcGjE44Ys20g5ILz https://youtu.be/bGGX8sPOFAg?si=jldACun8AdRPuUyC https://youtu.be/bGGX8sPOFAg?si=jldACun8AdRPuUyC https://youtu.be/VCkjBKjCikU?si=69GZwGalke2bc_nj https://youtu.be/VCkjBKjCikU?si=69GZwGalke2bc_nj Barry Crump, a national legend based on his books about his deer culling days, was revealed after his death to be an alcoholic wife beater. Nobody was shocked. And of course, rugby culture encourages quiet manly suffering. Here's renowned All Black Buck Shelford talking about losing three teeth, suffering a concussion, and then losing a testicle, all in one game of rugby. But he kept playing on, because that's what a Kiwi man does, according to the mythos. https://youtu.be/nvy32d-jk4E?si=a68eL2btXL8hmdNU https://youtu.be/nvy32d-jk4E?si=a68eL2btXL8hmdNU Young men who don't measure up to this artificial concept of masculinity then feel like even more of a failure, and well, you know.
- meiraleal 3y ago
  > Young men who don't measure up to this artificial concept of masculinity then feel like even more of a failure, and well, you know. I wouldn't call it artificial tho, if much the concept of masculinity got way softer compared to what past generations had to deal with. Nowadays a young man can live for up to 20 years or more without having to any responsibilities and no real life-endangering stress.
binary_ninja 3y ago
My humble perspective, having gone through that, is that young men have it very hard to find their value. As a young man, after you've been past your teenage years young men don't get the "kid's pity" and unconditional love anymore. You become only as useful as the things you do, and what can you do as a young man? Specially if you haven't really grown up with a supportive father you end up in a limbo where you're not yet a man but nobody really tells you how to be a man. Equally women generally don't find men trying to figure things out very attractive. It is, then, easier to feel better with yourself when you're on your 30s and you are lucky enough to have found a way to figure things out by yourself. Then and only then you suddenly become "useful", attractive to women and respected by other men. Getting through the first stage without falling into suicide or hedonism is the hardest part.
- a-french-anon 3y ago
  Another problem, (at least here), is what happens if you "overcorrect" with regard to hedonism. If you completely shun partying/clubbing/bars, casual sex, TV/social media addiction, etc... in favor of a more virtuous way of life (perhaps filled with more intellectual endeavors; without neglecting the body either, I should mention), you gain a superpower known as "invisibility from the female sight". And if you dare have standards about said opposite sex, $DEITY help you. The state of things is really dire, let me tell you.
  - boppo1 3y ago
    You can meet women at church... but that's another can of worms.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
eleveriven 3y ago
It's becoming harder to see a bright spot in the future

57 points by throwup238 3y ago

What do the kids have to look forward to? The reality is that homeownership and other pieces of the American dream are far out of reach for many of them and will be for the foreseeable future. Couple that with the constant stream of climate doomerism they've been fed for the past decade and we shouldn't be surprised the kids aren't alright.

addicted 3y ago
“Climate doomerism” has been around for at least 3 decades. Heck, the last decade has seen more good news on the climate front than any decade before, with wind and solar energy becoming cheaper and growing faster than any other source of energy, EVs actually not just becoming a reality but an inevitability, and most countries setting carbon reduction goals something which didn’t even sound possible a few decades ago.
- blankx32 3y ago
  Tell the media as that’s not their narrative

andrewstuart 3y ago

In Australia there’s no reason for young people to have hope about the future. The rich, the old, the vested interests have an iron grip on the wealth, the housing, the politics and as a result, climate policy. What’s the good bit about the future for young people, can someone tell me? Unless of course you are a child of the rich. I heard this generation is called “generation rent”, soon enough “generation tent”.

muro 3y ago
That's an unnecessarily pessimistic take. There is plenty of jobs, they pay well compared to almost anywhere in the world, the country is huge with lots of natural resources and a small population. There are amazing beaches, nature and if things go bad, some social safety net. With that country size, cheap housing is possible - just not in the most desirable locations.
- andrewstuart 3y ago
  You sound like a home owner. Did I guess right?
  - muro 3y ago
    No.
- gregoryl 3y ago
  Our higher salaries are a insufficient to offset the current cost of living, which is growing at a faster rate. Our country is physically large, with a low population density. Unless you are willing to sacrifice significantly (ie. Access to medical care), your are obligated to live near one of our (few!) cities. We sell our natural resources to foreign interests, who automate extraction and pay literally zero tax. The social safety net is significantly below the poverty line, and is stagnant in the face of the increasing cost of living.
- bingbingbing777 3y ago
  https://youtu.be/kt7zARB_sxc https://youtu.be/kt7zARB_sxc It's extremely hard to make friends here, our culture is a mixture of abuse (physical and sexual), doing drugs, drinking alcohol and getting drunk and gambling. There's no innovation here, house prices are insane, food is expensive.
- magnetowasright 3y ago
  Oh, living in 'less desirable' locations! Why haven't any of us thought of that! I'll spread the news! What do you consider 'cheap' housing? What are these fabled jobs where this cheap housing is? Can't make lattes for wankers, I mean, bankers while wfh. Will these jobs pay the rent for a single room in this cheap housing? Will they lease to parents? Where is it that we have all missed, right under our noses, that could magically fix our housing crisis by expanding our cities into? Even if the builders in this country weren't challenging each other for who can build the lowest quality, shortest lasting boxes of garbage? Where? Again ignoring the ridiculous amount of empty already built homes that exist as a blip in someone's property portfolio rather than as a thing for people to live in. A social safety net? One that unlawfully (and at great cost) issued (wrong!) automated debt notices to some our most vulnerable?[0] The same one that was willing to pay $12000 per recipient to administer 'cashless debit cards'[1] which block people on said safety net from using the despicably small pittance they get at farmers' markets, on second hand furniture, or any of the only other ways people miraculously manage to stay alive while on it? $12000 a year is about as much as you can get from welfare payments and instead of just doubling the pay they'd prefer to just leave people to starve while in debt. If you can even get approved for getting welfare in the first place! The suffering is the point. Our public health system is extremely underfunded. It's a joke. Still not as gutted as the poor NHS (...yet). If corporations paid tax, if we stopped throwing billions at submarines that will never be made, we could rival the world's best, but we choose not to. Our famous beaches are essentially a luxury at this point. It takes hours to get to them. Nobody can afford the fuel or the time and energy. I do thank my lucky stars that I'm here instead of somewhere that charges hundreds of dollars (but not if you apply to 17 different coupon places, I swear!) for an asthma inhaler but this 'lucky country' crap is extremely ignorant of the realities most of us face here. The worst part is that so many people here believe the despair so many of us face is 'unnecessarily pessimistic' and would rather whinge about that than consider for a second that the despair might be justified. It's almost treason according to murdoch media if you suggest that things don't actually need to be this hard. It's 'Unaustrayan' to have feelings or be poor or sick or homeless or different or to ask more of our country who actually could be making things as easy as you suggest. Again we choose not to. Oh and this doesn't even cover if you're Black (Indigenous Australians are the most incarcerated population on earth; I'll leave that to you to look up), otherwise a person of colour, religious but not Christian, queer, disabled, chronically ill, old, have school-aged kids, or live in properly rural or remote areas. Honestly being a middle class white woman is pretty scary here, too. Being a man who doesn't or doesn't want to live up to the ridiculous hyper-masculinity standard is also scary. Our rates of suicide in men, particularly rural ones, are overwhelming and have been for ages. Our nature is wonderful (...in the vanishingly small parts where we haven't utterly destroyed it). You've got that right. Bloody roos, though. Boxing rats who can go highway speeds but choose to jump in front of cars instead. Funny buggers lol. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robodebt_scheme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robodebt_scheme [1] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-05/alp-drops-support-for-cashless-welfare-card-expansion/9229596 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-12-05/alp-drops-support-for...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
viraptor 3y ago
That's extreme. There's so many worse place to be than Australia. I mean, sure, there's a lot of issues for the future, (there always were) but there's a lot of good things in life you don't have to pay for. Go for a walk with a friend for the start, it's nice outside. You don't have to be anywhere close to rich to have a nice life.
- andrewstuart 3y ago
  Do you own a home?
  - viraptor 3y ago
    I rented for almost my whole life. The change is convenient, but really not life changing. Definitely not "life worth living" level changing.
    - andrewstuart 3y ago
      The point is made. Anyone who says "cheer up, it's OK, all is great in Australia, you just need to smile, take a walk, smell the roses!", they always own a house.
      - addicted 3y ago
        I go to real life protests for both climate change and for better housing policy in the U.S. so I’m hardly someone who believes there are no problems. And I’m also not a homeowner. But the idea that someone, anyone, living in Australia has a worse outlook in life than 99% of humanity is absolutely not true. But I have seen enough of that in person here as well, so I’m not questioning either the actual feeling or the validity of the feeling. However, something appears to have changed where younger folks in a certain set of circumstances feel despair when someone of the same age under similar circumstances even a decade ago might not have felt that way. I have to believe social media and the expectations it creates but also the way it bombards young people with issues that they can do nothing about today has some responsibility here.

jarbus 3y ago

I fell into the 20-24 age and was deeply suicidal last year. There were two main factors at the time, aside from my usual depression 1) horrendous and soul-crushing job market that constantly signaled to me that I had no value 2) incredibly skewed expectations of success due to the internet I’ve moved past it for now, luckily, but I’m seeing a lot of people struggle, particularly men, and get left behind, with virtually nobody trying to make us feel valued or supported on the societal level. Many men, especially those without prospects for getting married/having kids, really don’t have a good reason to go on except pure hedonism. And that can only go so far.

swatcoder 3y ago
> Many men, especially those without prospects for getting married/having kids, really don’t have a good reason to go on except pure hedonism. And that can only go so far. FWIW, the missing element in this framing is real, substantive community. Not conversational or ephemeral community like you find online, but the kind of substantive community that engenders a network of mutual support. It's not the only way through life, but people naturally get momentum behind them when they can take on meaningful responsibilities towards others. Caring for a partner and kids is one way of taking on those kinds of responsibilities, but you're right that this isn't readily available to everyone. It never has been, really, but that can be especially apparent to people these days. Work can be another way, but it needs to feel like you're actually helping something in a way that matters, and many people don't have those opportunities for work either. Much work is towards notoriously bullshit ends, and plenty of employers and clients can be degrading rather than appreciative. But if you read your own post, or walk out your door and see your own neighbors, it's not hard to find people that need help. That's where the giant ocean of fulfillment is hiding in plain sight. Consumer-individualist culture just sort of forgot to teach people that, so one way to be practice it is to help people who need "a reason to go on" to find it in helping others themselves.
- prewett 3y ago
  I agree that we need real, substantive community. However, I'm skeptical of the helping-others-builds-community narrative. Shared service can create community, but to be sustainable the service is something that fills you up. I've done a lot of soup kitchen, helping at food banks, etc. work, and it's always been sort of a chore, despite doing it because of a strongly held value. Whereas I can spend a lot of time practicing beautiful choral music for a free concert and it's totally sustainable. Also, community is built among peers, but giving help is not necessarily a peer activity (depends on the help, how reciprocal the help is, pre-existing relationships, etc.). But helping "people that need help" is not the same as taking meaningful responsibilities. If I take "meaningful responsibilities" towards my neighbors, that's likely to look like co-dependency unless there's some sort of meaningful responsibilities I'm receiving back, or a community (in the social, not geographic/cartographic sense) that that we are already both part of. In fact, it's hard to take on meaningful responsibilities if you are not already a member of some community. (Which is not a bad thing; you don't usually make someone new the leader of the group, and there are good reasons for that)

searealist 3y ago

This is only true for young adult men. Middle-aged women still have higher suicide rates than young adult women.

benterix 3y ago
What do you mean by "still"? Men have higher suicide rates in general all over the world.
- malicka 3y ago
  By “still,” they meant that the article’s observation about younger men being more suicidal than older men doesn’t apply likewise to younger women & older women. So older women still are more suicidal than younger women.
- searealist 3y ago
  Re-read what I wrote.
tastyfreeze 3y ago
Sadly, women that don't land a man before beauty fades are far more likely to end up lonely. Having responsibility gives men purpose. Having children gives women purpose. Lessons that should be taught not left to learning by experience. If left to experience, many don't learn it.
- locopati 3y ago
  that's a pretty broad generalization. are you speaking of a specific culture?
  - tastyfreeze 3y ago
    It is broad because it applies to most humans throughout history regardless of culture.
    - 3y ago

EdwardDiego 3y ago

In my country, NZ, it's always been that way - men aged 15 - 30 are disproportionately higher in suicide statistics. There's varying theories why, but our culture's emphasis on the "strong silent stoic man" is above and beyond the quiet stoicism expected of men in general. That stoicism/quiet desperation was often used to sell products. E.g., the Speights (a terrible beer) Southern Man... https://youtu.be/q25aJ6UNvhw https://youtu.be/q25aJ6UNvhw https://youtu.be/Su0MCBim7FA https://youtu.be/Su0MCBim7FA Barry Crump's "Good Keen Man" deerculler persona used to sell Hiluxes... https://youtu.be/iqwnr2sza_o?si=mmRvEiEMa6pLKDbo https://youtu.be/iqwnr2sza_o?si=mmRvEiEMa6pLKDbo https://youtu.be/_yj1gff-ndc?si=mcGjE44Ys20g5ILz https://youtu.be/_yj1gff-ndc?si=mcGjE44Ys20g5ILz https://youtu.be/bGGX8sPOFAg?si=jldACun8AdRPuUyC https://youtu.be/bGGX8sPOFAg?si=jldACun8AdRPuUyC https://youtu.be/VCkjBKjCikU?si=69GZwGalke2bc_nj https://youtu.be/VCkjBKjCikU?si=69GZwGalke2bc_nj Barry Crump, a national legend based on his books about his deer culling days, was revealed after his death to be an alcoholic wife beater. Nobody was shocked. And of course, rugby culture encourages quiet manly suffering. Here's renowned All Black Buck Shelford talking about losing three teeth, suffering a concussion, and then losing a testicle, all in one game of rugby. But he kept playing on, because that's what a Kiwi man does, according to the mythos. https://youtu.be/nvy32d-jk4E?si=a68eL2btXL8hmdNU https://youtu.be/nvy32d-jk4E?si=a68eL2btXL8hmdNU Young men who don't measure up to this artificial concept of masculinity then feel like even more of a failure, and well, you know.

meiraleal 3y ago
> Young men who don't measure up to this artificial concept of masculinity then feel like even more of a failure, and well, you know. I wouldn't call it artificial tho, if much the concept of masculinity got way softer compared to what past generations had to deal with. Nowadays a young man can live for up to 20 years or more without having to any responsibilities and no real life-endangering stress.

binary_ninja 3y ago

My humble perspective, having gone through that, is that young men have it very hard to find their value. As a young man, after you've been past your teenage years young men don't get the "kid's pity" and unconditional love anymore. You become only as useful as the things you do, and what can you do as a young man? Specially if you haven't really grown up with a supportive father you end up in a limbo where you're not yet a man but nobody really tells you how to be a man. Equally women generally don't find men trying to figure things out very attractive. It is, then, easier to feel better with yourself when you're on your 30s and you are lucky enough to have found a way to figure things out by yourself. Then and only then you suddenly become "useful", attractive to women and respected by other men. Getting through the first stage without falling into suicide or hedonism is the hardest part.

a-french-anon 3y ago
Another problem, (at least here), is what happens if you "overcorrect" with regard to hedonism. If you completely shun partying/clubbing/bars, casual sex, TV/social media addiction, etc... in favor of a more virtuous way of life (perhaps filled with more intellectual endeavors; without neglecting the body either, I should mention), you gain a superpower known as "invisibility from the female sight". And if you dare have standards about said opposite sex, $DEITY help you. The state of things is really dire, let me tell you.
- boppo1 3y ago
  You can meet women at church... but that's another can of worms.

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eleveriven 3y ago

It's becoming harder to see a bright spot in the future