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Exactly, it's a bad error message if you need to read 8 pages of tutorial to get that basic feedback.
by carlmr 3y ago
Exactly, it's a bad error message if you need to read 8 pages of tutorial to get that basic feedback.
- cess11 3y ago[flagged]
- spxneo 3y agonot sure if you are trolling or serious here but thats a bad user experience and also very condescending
- cess11 3y agoIt's not about a user, it's about someone declining to become a user because the manual is distributed as a separate PDF. I see two solutions for this problem, either use another software or hire someone to adapt this one to you. As a user you know the basic constraints on table names, if you don't you can't use the software.
- KronisLV 3y ago> It's not about a user If your users are developers, then this mindset will inevitably lead to poor developer experience (DX). That is a stance that someone could take, but their software would be then only used in spite of the DX, not because of it. In general, this would lead to a more miserable experience. I don't think that's good, even if it's just a lot of small annoyances along the way. Here's a Dylan Beattie talk that touches upon this very thing: https://youtu.be/BIkXid_pBiY?t=629 https://youtu.be/BIkXid_pBiY?t=629 (specific timestamp to relevant bit)
- cess11 3y agoYeah, people have been having miserable experiences with this software and its predecessor for decades but still keep at it, they must be a lot less smart than you.
- CRConrad 3y ago> As a user you know the basic constraints on table names, if you don't you can't use the software. 1) As a user you shouldn't be required to know weird constraints on table names. 2) As a piece of software objecting to some specific issue with a table name, YTF not mention what that issue is in the error message you throw up?
- easywood 3y agoNo comment would have been better than this comment. Now both the software and its defenders sound really hostile and off-putting.
- cess11 3y agoIt's a database for programmers that want to be able to program their database and have a basic GUI on top. If it's too big a hurdle to read the manual you'll never manage to use it for its purpose. Is this a threat to you somehow? In what way? Do you have the same opinion about ripgrep? $ rg 'function(' regex parse error: function( ^ error: unclosed group
- codetrotter 3y agoThe error message from rg says exactly what is the problem though? And that’s what people say BeeBase should do here too. Something like: Error: invalid name: must start with uppercase letter Not some obtuse message that you have to go look up in a manual for no reason
- cess11 3y agoNo, it doesn't. You fill in with knowledge about regex, which isn't explicit in the error message.
- Vegenoid 3y agoThe equivalent of BeeBase’s error in your example would be simply “invalid regex”, which I’d say is still more useful as regex is widely understood and there are many tools that you can give regex to that will tell you what is wrong with it.
- cess11 3y agoNo, there's a specificity to "name" and "group" that makes them similar, which is one part of why I settled on this example. The other is that I expected the recipient to have experience with regex and find the example dumb, confirming my position that one can very well demand a basic knowledge of the tool that isn't immediately communicated by it. Like knowledge of the regex language, or having spent ten minutes skimming through the tutorial part of a PDF manual. In my experience, how to use a manual is a technique more widely understood than regex. Maybe this impression is wrong, I'd welcome something tangible pointing in another direction if it is.
- huhtenberg 3y agoYeah, your comments read like trolling.
- silisili 3y agoI'm all for RTFM, more than most, but this is a ridiculous take. The software obviously did a specific check that failed, but added no context as to why. Like a boolean isValidName() function. You're already doing checks, you know why it failed, tell the user. Even in fuzzy terms is more helpful than pass/fail. Now, if the error said something to the effect of 'name must be uppercase' and the user was confused or complaining, I'd be more inclined to agree.
- mynameisvlad 3y agoIts OSS, you are free to change that if you don’t like it.
- jfyi 3y agoLet's take a look at how the big boys handle something similar... SELECT * FROM logs WHERE KEY = 'blah' LIMIT 10; /* SQL Error (1064): You have an error in your SQL syntax; check the manual that corresponds to your MariaDB server version for the right syntax to use near 'KEY = 'blah' LIMIT 10' at line 1 */ I think there is some expectation of technical literacy for the use of a database. This would include being able to familiarize yourself with naming conventions and keywords. I have personally never seen a database that gives detailed error messages like was requested and I'd be excited to see an example.
- dvdkon 3y agoYes, the error messages of modern SQL databases suck. On that note, SQL itself sucks (the two problems might be related). But that's no excuse to not do better. Besides, BeeBase seems more user-focused than MariaDB, presenting itself as a nice GUI tool. "Real developers" might not need good error messages, but they also don't need a GUI and would sooner use some unholy bash-sed-awk-Perl mixture.
- jfyi 3y agoAre you aware of non SQL databases that give detailed errors?
- dvdkon 3y agoFair point. Databases encoding queries in JSON get some error messages for free, at least when it comes to "syntax". But I think even others do well. I just logged into Grafana and tried writing a simple query. Upon failing I got a reasonably detailed and specific error message: 'parse error: expected type range vector in call to function "rate", got instant vector'. I also tried XQuery in Xidel and it gave me nicely descriptive responses to whichever mistakes I introduced.
- airtonix 3y ago[dead]
- kazinator 3y agoThere is only so much room in one page of a tutorial; not everything can be on page 1.