4 ms·

Doesn't this mean the end of 'at-will' for anyone that a company wants to cover with a non-compete? At present a company can have their cake and eat it, giving

Doesn't this mean the end of 'at-will' for anyone that a company wants to cover with a non-compete? At present a company can have their cake and eat it, giving you one day notice of end of employment but then enforcing a non-compete for x months. If this survives the Supreme Court, wouldn't a company would have to put in your employment contract that you/they must give x months notice to end employment if they wanted to restrict you? Otherwise you could give one days notice and they wouldn't be able to put you on gardening leave.

viraptor 2y ago
The gardening leave still works as long as it's beneficial to both parties. The employee gets an effective long, paid holiday and the company gets a non-complete equivalent. Now they have to really ensure that pay is worth more than changing the employer though. It's less "end of at-will" and more "if you want effective non-competes, it's going to cost you".
- zippothrowaway 2y ago
  Or the employee agreement you sign includes a notice period of 6 months from either side. I think you're right that negotiated gardening leave will happen but I can also see companies baking in the gardening leave at the start of employment (so no longer at will) as being cheaper.
  - davidgay 2y ago
    > Or the employee agreement you sign includes a notice period of 6 months from either side. Those are illegal in at-will states.
    - andthenzen 2y ago
      Source? My understanding is that at-will states have a default presumption of at-will employment in the absence of a contract, but parties are free to contract alternatively. Which states invalidate mutually agreed upon notice periods?
      - davidgay 2y ago
        You are right and my memory was faulty:(
      - yladiz 2y ago
        It’s not illegal, but from what I understand an excessively long notice period would very likely be shot down by the courts. There are a lot of arguments to be made here (for example, what’s stopping an employer from putting a 5 year notice period from day 1 if they can put an arbitrary one?). I imagine if companies do increase it or introduce one in general, it would be closer to 1 month, maybe 2, not 6.
    - mlrtime 2y ago
      They are not illegal, and even if there is a grey area good luck defending. I worked at a hedge fund in NYC. I gave my 2 week notice. HR said that the employee contract that I signed when I joined stated a minimum of a 4 month notice period. This would have completely killed my next job which I already accepted. I should have known this was in the employee agreement, but I didn't know they they would threaten lawyers on me if I didn't stay 3 months.

viraptor 2y ago

The gardening leave still works as long as it's beneficial to both parties. The employee gets an effective long, paid holiday and the company gets a non-complete equivalent. Now they have to really ensure that pay is worth more than changing the employer though. It's less "end of at-will" and more "if you want effective non-competes, it's going to cost you".

zippothrowaway 2y ago
Or the employee agreement you sign includes a notice period of 6 months from either side. I think you're right that negotiated gardening leave will happen but I can also see companies baking in the gardening leave at the start of employment (so no longer at will) as being cheaper.
- davidgay 2y ago
  > Or the employee agreement you sign includes a notice period of 6 months from either side. Those are illegal in at-will states.
  - andthenzen 2y ago
    Source? My understanding is that at-will states have a default presumption of at-will employment in the absence of a contract, but parties are free to contract alternatively. Which states invalidate mutually agreed upon notice periods?
    - davidgay 2y ago
      You are right and my memory was faulty:(
    - yladiz 2y ago
      It’s not illegal, but from what I understand an excessively long notice period would very likely be shot down by the courts. There are a lot of arguments to be made here (for example, what’s stopping an employer from putting a 5 year notice period from day 1 if they can put an arbitrary one?). I imagine if companies do increase it or introduce one in general, it would be closer to 1 month, maybe 2, not 6.
  - mlrtime 2y ago
    They are not illegal, and even if there is a grey area good luck defending. I worked at a hedge fund in NYC. I gave my 2 week notice. HR said that the employee contract that I signed when I joined stated a minimum of a 4 month notice period. This would have completely killed my next job which I already accepted. I should have known this was in the employee agreement, but I didn't know they they would threaten lawyers on me if I didn't stay 3 months.