3 ms·

A big open question appears to be "how often do storms of this magnitude occur" If we wanted answers to that, I think we could inspect chunks of iron containin

A big open question appears to be "how often do storms of this magnitude occur" If we wanted answers to that, I think we could inspect chunks of iron containing mudstone deposited anytime in the past few million years. By looking at the magnetic alignment of iron particulates, you will learn the magnetic field when the particle was laid down. With particles being so small, it seems likely one could reconstruct 5 minutely magnetic field angle, albeit with a big linearity error on the time axis due to the uncertainty in rate of silt deposits. However, such a measurement should still give a good estimate of the frequency and magnitude of geomagnetic storms.

entropic88 3y ago
They look for carbon 14 isotope spikes in ancient tree rings, and compare to beryllium 10 and chlorine 36 in ice cores We've developed a fairly decent record of events back to 14,000 years ago Look up 'Miyake events'
- nicbou 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyake_event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyake_event This keeps getting more interesting! > Six diverse historical occurrences, from archaeological sites to natural disasters, have thus been dated to a specific year, using Miyake events as benchmarks and counting tree rings. For example, wooden houses in the Viking site at L'Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland were dated by finding the 993 CE Miyake event and then counting tree rings, which showed that the wood is from a tree felled in 1021 CE.[
  - stainforth 3y ago
    13000 years ago seems like a special moment for a few events. Is it possible that say a volcano eruption, or a meteor strike saturates the atmosphere and normal cosmic ray interaction with soot and so on can attribute to what they detect in trees?
- hansjorg 3y ago
  According to Wikipedia: > At present, five significant events are known (7176 BCE, 5259 BCE, 660 BCE, 774 CE, 993 CE) Seems like the Carrington event wasn't strong enough to be considered a Miyake event.
- pyinstallwoes 3y ago
  Interesting one is 12k years ago around Younger Dryas
shzhdbi09gv8ioi 3y ago
> I think we could inspect chunks of iron containing mudstone deposited anytime in the past few million years. By looking at the magnetic alignment of iron particulates, you will learn the magnetic field when the particle was laid down. This method has been used to identify the reversal of the magnetic pole. [1] Generally tho, such solar storm lasts for way too short amount of time to leave permanent evidence in the rock layers. However, I believe they have studied deviations in tree trunk rings. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal
- zh3 3y ago
  And to prove the theory of continential drift (through Paleomagnetism [0]). Shame that Wegener [1] didn't live to see his theory vindicated. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleomagnetism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleomagnetism [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Wegener https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Wegener
jameshart 3y ago
Are you suggesting this because you have some knowledge of the field and are aware that this work hasn't been done? It seems like if it were so simple someone might have taken a look. Magnetic analyses of rock deposits are after all how we know about things like the timing and frequency of magnetic pole flips. The Carrington event lasted about 2 weeks. How much silt is deposited in that time?
- londons_explore 3y ago
  I suspect it hasn't been done because there was no obvious value to such data, and the effort of figuring out the precise position and magnetic orientation of trillions of iron particles would be pretty high...
  - exogenousdata 3y ago
    Lloyd’s of London is a large insurer and is very interested in the potential liability that they are exposed to from the various insurance policies that they’ve underwritten. In 2013, they published a report[0] considering the effects of solar storm risk to the North American electric grid. tldr; it’s all about the transformers [0] - https://assets.lloyds.com/assets/pdf-solar-storm-risk-to-the-north-american-electric-grid/1/pdf-Solar-Storm-Risk-to-the-North-American-Electric-Grid.pdf https://assets.lloyds.com/assets/pdf-solar-storm-risk-to-the...

entropic88 3y ago

They look for carbon 14 isotope spikes in ancient tree rings, and compare to beryllium 10 and chlorine 36 in ice cores We've developed a fairly decent record of events back to 14,000 years ago Look up 'Miyake events'

nicbou 3y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyake_event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyake_event This keeps getting more interesting! > Six diverse historical occurrences, from archaeological sites to natural disasters, have thus been dated to a specific year, using Miyake events as benchmarks and counting tree rings. For example, wooden houses in the Viking site at L'Anse aux Meadows in Newfoundland were dated by finding the 993 CE Miyake event and then counting tree rings, which showed that the wood is from a tree felled in 1021 CE.[
- stainforth 3y ago
  13000 years ago seems like a special moment for a few events. Is it possible that say a volcano eruption, or a meteor strike saturates the atmosphere and normal cosmic ray interaction with soot and so on can attribute to what they detect in trees?
hansjorg 3y ago
According to Wikipedia: > At present, five significant events are known (7176 BCE, 5259 BCE, 660 BCE, 774 CE, 993 CE) Seems like the Carrington event wasn't strong enough to be considered a Miyake event.
pyinstallwoes 3y ago
Interesting one is 12k years ago around Younger Dryas

shzhdbi09gv8ioi 3y ago

> I think we could inspect chunks of iron containing mudstone deposited anytime in the past few million years. By looking at the magnetic alignment of iron particulates, you will learn the magnetic field when the particle was laid down. This method has been used to identify the reversal of the magnetic pole. [1] Generally tho, such solar storm lasts for way too short amount of time to leave permanent evidence in the rock layers. However, I believe they have studied deviations in tree trunk rings. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal

zh3 3y ago
And to prove the theory of continential drift (through Paleomagnetism [0]). Shame that Wegener [1] didn't live to see his theory vindicated. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleomagnetism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleomagnetism [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Wegener https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Wegener

jameshart 3y ago

Are you suggesting this because you have some knowledge of the field and are aware that this work hasn't been done? It seems like if it were so simple someone might have taken a look. Magnetic analyses of rock deposits are after all how we know about things like the timing and frequency of magnetic pole flips. The Carrington event lasted about 2 weeks. How much silt is deposited in that time?

londons_explore 3y ago
I suspect it hasn't been done because there was no obvious value to such data, and the effort of figuring out the precise position and magnetic orientation of trillions of iron particles would be pretty high...
- exogenousdata 3y ago
  Lloyd’s of London is a large insurer and is very interested in the potential liability that they are exposed to from the various insurance policies that they’ve underwritten. In 2013, they published a report[0] considering the effects of solar storm risk to the North American electric grid. tldr; it’s all about the transformers [0] - https://assets.lloyds.com/assets/pdf-solar-storm-risk-to-the-north-american-electric-grid/1/pdf-Solar-Storm-Risk-to-the-North-American-Electric-Grid.pdf https://assets.lloyds.com/assets/pdf-solar-storm-risk-to-the...