5 ms·

It is interesting that Google gets a lot of flak for canceling products, while Microsoft effectively cancels products all the time through EOL, but it doesn't r

by saulpw 3y ago

It is interesting that Google gets a lot of flak for canceling products, while Microsoft effectively cancels products all the time through EOL, but it doesn't register the same because they will sell you the next version (which is NOT the same as the old version only better). Would love to still run Windows XP.

daveoc64 3y ago
It's not at all interesting. Google closes services with no alternative, and as they are almost always cloud-based, you can't use them at all after the closure. Microsoft is selling products that can be used indefinitely, albeit without continued software updates from Microsoft.
vel0city 3y ago
It is interesting that Google gets a lot of flak for canceling products, while ~~Microsoft~~ Canoical effectively cancels products all the time through EOL, but it doesn't register the same because they will sell you the next version (which is NOT the same as the old version only better). Would love to still run Dapper Drake.
pquki4 3y ago
That's really a stretch to equate cancelling products to product EOL. I don't think I need to explain it -- anyone who ever looked at the release cycle of Python, Ubuntu, Django, Node.js etc understands why it is common and makes sense to have a well-defined support timeline.
patmorgan23 3y ago
Microsoft tells you in 5-10 years this product will be unsupported, you almost always have the option to buy extended support and sometimes they push back the EOL date. And the solution to the EOL is to upgrade to the new release. Google randomly kills products with 30-60 days notice, and no upgrade path to a different product. Completely different.
SlavikCA 3y ago
The difference is that with Microsoft you often still can use unsupported product. You can use Windows XP today, even though it's not very useful. But you can't use Google Reader or Google Wave in any shape or form.
- brokenmachine 3y ago
  >You can use Windows XP today, even though it's not very useful. Will that be true for Win 10 or 11 though? Would they keep running forever without updates?
  - daveoc64 3y ago
    Yes they will work indefinitely. Why wouldn't they?
    - cesarb 3y ago
      > Would they keep running forever without updates? > > Yes they will work indefinitely. Why wouldn't they? Because the computer clock advanced past a date which triggers bugs or limitations on some component, and it cannot be adjusted backwards without a full reinstall, or it's talking to networked services which expect the clock to be close enough to reality. It might be possible to fix with third-party updates, but that's no longer "without updates". And if you need a reinstall, the online account requirement and/or activation servers being turned off might make it hard without third-party modifications. (It's been a long time since I last installed Windows anywhere, and that was before the online account requirement; how hard is it to install Windows on a completely offline computer nowadays?)
      - vel0city 3y ago
        The first part of your comment is an extremely vague theoretical that pretty much applies to any piece of software, not Windows in particular. It is not based on any actual evidence that such a thing will happen. You might as well bring up the possibility of a massive solar flare completely wipes out all computers preventing people from running Windows indefinitely, it is also a possibility preventing users from running Windows 10 forever. The second part isn't based in reality at all. Windows 10 can be installed entirely offline.
infotainment 3y ago
Eh, I do think there’s a difference between “cancelling” a product because a newer version exists, versus cancelling one with no replacement at all.
ZainRiz 3y ago
With Microsoft they tell you years in advance when the product will reach EOL, so you have plenty of time to prepare On top of that, most of their products are software running on your desktop and will still keep working after EOL And if you're a government or enterprise with spectacularly big wallets, you can choose to pay Microsoft big $$ to keep shipping you additional security patches
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  >And if you're a government or enterprise with spectacularly big wallets Normal people also get to buy extended support if desired[1], and frankly it's not that expensive if you really need it. [1]: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/24/04/03/1757230/microsoft-reveals-subscription-pricing-for-using-windows-10-beyond-2025 https://tech.slashdot.org/story/24/04/03/1757230/microsoft-r...
- paulryanrogers 3y ago
  For how much longer will this be true? Aren't they deprecating Office offline in favor of the online edition?
  - ocdtrekkie 3y ago
    They just released the beta of Office 2024, so no. However, they have drastically shortened the support lifecycle for offline editions which has made it a lot more expensive to use non-subscription Office. Office 2016 was supported for ten years, Office 2021 is supported for five. With a three year release cycle, you used to be able to skip up to two versions of Office and still get security updates. Now you can't skip any because five years of support is too short to get you to the release six years out.

by saulpw 3y ago

daveoc64 3y ago

It's not at all interesting. Google closes services with no alternative, and as they are almost always cloud-based, you can't use them at all after the closure. Microsoft is selling products that can be used indefinitely, albeit without continued software updates from Microsoft.

vel0city 3y ago

It is interesting that Google gets a lot of flak for canceling products, while ~~Microsoft~~ Canoical effectively cancels products all the time through EOL, but it doesn't register the same because they will sell you the next version (which is NOT the same as the old version only better). Would love to still run Dapper Drake.

pquki4 3y ago

That's really a stretch to equate cancelling products to product EOL. I don't think I need to explain it -- anyone who ever looked at the release cycle of Python, Ubuntu, Django, Node.js etc understands why it is common and makes sense to have a well-defined support timeline.

patmorgan23 3y ago

Microsoft tells you in 5-10 years this product will be unsupported, you almost always have the option to buy extended support and sometimes they push back the EOL date. And the solution to the EOL is to upgrade to the new release. Google randomly kills products with 30-60 days notice, and no upgrade path to a different product. Completely different.

SlavikCA 3y ago

The difference is that with Microsoft you often still can use unsupported product. You can use Windows XP today, even though it's not very useful. But you can't use Google Reader or Google Wave in any shape or form.

brokenmachine 3y ago
>You can use Windows XP today, even though it's not very useful. Will that be true for Win 10 or 11 though? Would they keep running forever without updates?
- daveoc64 3y ago
  Yes they will work indefinitely. Why wouldn't they?
  - cesarb 3y ago
    > Would they keep running forever without updates? > > Yes they will work indefinitely. Why wouldn't they? Because the computer clock advanced past a date which triggers bugs or limitations on some component, and it cannot be adjusted backwards without a full reinstall, or it's talking to networked services which expect the clock to be close enough to reality. It might be possible to fix with third-party updates, but that's no longer "without updates". And if you need a reinstall, the online account requirement and/or activation servers being turned off might make it hard without third-party modifications. (It's been a long time since I last installed Windows anywhere, and that was before the online account requirement; how hard is it to install Windows on a completely offline computer nowadays?)
    - vel0city 3y ago
      The first part of your comment is an extremely vague theoretical that pretty much applies to any piece of software, not Windows in particular. It is not based on any actual evidence that such a thing will happen. You might as well bring up the possibility of a massive solar flare completely wipes out all computers preventing people from running Windows indefinitely, it is also a possibility preventing users from running Windows 10 forever. The second part isn't based in reality at all. Windows 10 can be installed entirely offline.

infotainment 3y ago

Eh, I do think there’s a difference between “cancelling” a product because a newer version exists, versus cancelling one with no replacement at all.

ZainRiz 3y ago

With Microsoft they tell you years in advance when the product will reach EOL, so you have plenty of time to prepare On top of that, most of their products are software running on your desktop and will still keep working after EOL And if you're a government or enterprise with spectacularly big wallets, you can choose to pay Microsoft big $$ to keep shipping you additional security patches

Dalewyn 3y ago
>And if you're a government or enterprise with spectacularly big wallets Normal people also get to buy extended support if desired[1], and frankly it's not that expensive if you really need it. [1]: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/24/04/03/1757230/microsoft-reveals-subscription-pricing-for-using-windows-10-beyond-2025 https://tech.slashdot.org/story/24/04/03/1757230/microsoft-r...
paulryanrogers 3y ago
For how much longer will this be true? Aren't they deprecating Office offline in favor of the online edition?
- ocdtrekkie 3y ago
  They just released the beta of Office 2024, so no. However, they have drastically shortened the support lifecycle for offline editions which has made it a lot more expensive to use non-subscription Office. Office 2016 was supported for ten years, Office 2021 is supported for five. With a three year release cycle, you used to be able to skip up to two versions of Office and still get security updates. Now you can't skip any because five years of support is too short to get you to the release six years out.