5 ms·

Tesla driver charged with killing motorcyclist while browsing phone on autopilot

28 points by anigbrowl 3y ago

bell-cot 3y ago
> With nobody paying attention to the car’s actions, the Tesla software ignored Jeffrey Nissen on his motorcycle and continued on at speed. The car rear-ended the two-wheeler, Nissen was flung from the bike, and his life ended pinned underneath the electric car, where he was still lodged when police arrived to the scene. Personal anecdote: A couple decades ago, I was rear-ended. (No permanent injuries, though my car was totaled.) In addition to the red light that I was stopped at, my brake lights, and my bright red car - it was full daylight - the at-fault driver could have noticed the other 3 lanes of traffic stopped at that red light. But she did not, because (she said) her nose was too deep in the (large, paper) map that she was trying to read as she drove. While I'm sure that "Tesla" gets the clicks, and I've a pretty low opinion of both Tesla's self-driving tech and how they represent it - the boring fact is that inattentive drivers have never needed any personal electronics, nor clever cars, nor any other cool or interesting "help" to cause horrible accidents.
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  Well said. To your point, I've been in long stopped cars at intersections that have been rear ended by lost-in-space drivers, 3 times. I was almost hit a fourth time two days ago by some older man on an electric bicycle driving with questionable coordination. Luckily he didn't kill himself.
  - bcrl 3y ago
    In Young Drivers we were taught to choose positions at the intersection which offer an escape route (or to make space by leaving space), and to monitor our rear view mirrors as part of our scanning the intersection and to use the route when needed. Defensive driving isn't perfect, but can mitigate quite a few of risks posed by distracted drivers or buggy autonomous driving technology.
    - jjtheblunt 3y ago
      Same teachings we had…and it is definitely proven useful over time.
- sorobahn 3y ago
  That's a fair point, but personally I feel the role of technology when it comes to distractions is downplayed if we are comparing to old school distractions like paper maps. Given how modern social media apps have basically hijacked out primal desire for social validation with a sprinkle of algorithmic engagement thrown in, it's a new level of addiction that people have to fight through boring commutes and slow traffic. I can't think of any "traditional" distractions that demand the level of willpower needed to avoid phones while driving. I agree with you that it's not a new problem, but it definitely feels like it is growing at a faster rate due to the rise of phones though. Too many anecdotes of watching people driving full speed through intersections while on their phones these days.
  - bell-cot 3y ago
    > I can't think of any "traditional" distractions that demand the level of willpower needed to avoid phones... My mind immediately goes to a low-speed rear-ending which I witnessed ~2008. It was summer, the at-fault vehicle contained several teen boys, and right next to it (on the driver's side) was a convertible (top down) containing several attractive and attention-seeking teenage girls. The most advanced "technology" involved was probably a tube top.
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neilv 3y ago
The surviving family members can point to prior representations by Tesla (including those by Musk), in their large lawsuit?
lifeisstillgood 3y ago
I was listening to Brad Gerstners podcast in which they were talking about Teslas per mile insurance cost being many multiples of “normal cars” and how that affected the chances of robo-taxis in the near future. But honestly I think the actuaries are calling it right. Now is the reason because Tesla has worse tech, or because Tesla drivers self select, and are the worst people to give partial self driving to?
- afavour 3y ago
  I suspect Tesla simply has the latest number of vehicles on the market with this level of driving assist, therefore accidents almost always involve Teslas. To my mind the very name is a core problem. "Autopilot" clearly implies you're able to disengage from driving, no number of asterisks or warning dialogs is going to alter that core perception. But to change the name at this point would be to admit that they're at fault, something Musk would be loathe to do and probably something Tesla's lawyers would really rather not do, too.
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28 points by anigbrowl 3y ago

> With nobody paying attention to the car’s actions, the Tesla software ignored Jeffrey Nissen on his motorcycle and continued on at speed. The car rear-ended the two-wheeler, Nissen was flung from the bike, and his life ended pinned underneath the electric car, where he was still lodged when police arrived to the scene. Personal anecdote: A couple decades ago, I was rear-ended. (No permanent injuries, though my car was totaled.) In addition to the red light that I was stopped at, my brake lights, and my bright red car - it was full daylight - the at-fault driver could have noticed the other 3 lanes of traffic stopped at that red light. But she did not, because (she said) her nose was too deep in the (large, paper) map that she was trying to read as she drove. While I'm sure that "Tesla" gets the clicks, and I've a pretty low opinion of both Tesla's self-driving tech and how they represent it - the boring fact is that inattentive drivers have never needed any personal electronics, nor clever cars, nor any other cool or interesting "help" to cause horrible accidents.

jjtheblunt 3y ago
Well said. To your point, I've been in long stopped cars at intersections that have been rear ended by lost-in-space drivers, 3 times. I was almost hit a fourth time two days ago by some older man on an electric bicycle driving with questionable coordination. Luckily he didn't kill himself.
- bcrl 3y ago
  In Young Drivers we were taught to choose positions at the intersection which offer an escape route (or to make space by leaving space), and to monitor our rear view mirrors as part of our scanning the intersection and to use the route when needed. Defensive driving isn't perfect, but can mitigate quite a few of risks posed by distracted drivers or buggy autonomous driving technology.
  - jjtheblunt 3y ago
    Same teachings we had…and it is definitely proven useful over time.
sorobahn 3y ago
That's a fair point, but personally I feel the role of technology when it comes to distractions is downplayed if we are comparing to old school distractions like paper maps. Given how modern social media apps have basically hijacked out primal desire for social validation with a sprinkle of algorithmic engagement thrown in, it's a new level of addiction that people have to fight through boring commutes and slow traffic. I can't think of any "traditional" distractions that demand the level of willpower needed to avoid phones while driving. I agree with you that it's not a new problem, but it definitely feels like it is growing at a faster rate due to the rise of phones though. Too many anecdotes of watching people driving full speed through intersections while on their phones these days.
- bell-cot 3y ago
  > I can't think of any "traditional" distractions that demand the level of willpower needed to avoid phones... My mind immediately goes to a low-speed rear-ending which I witnessed ~2008. It was summer, the at-fault vehicle contained several teen boys, and right next to it (on the driver's side) was a convertible (top down) containing several attractive and attention-seeking teenage girls. The most advanced "technology" involved was probably a tube top.

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neilv 3y ago

The surviving family members can point to prior representations by Tesla (including those by Musk), in their large lawsuit?

lifeisstillgood 3y ago

I was listening to Brad Gerstners podcast in which they were talking about Teslas per mile insurance cost being many multiples of “normal cars” and how that affected the chances of robo-taxis in the near future. But honestly I think the actuaries are calling it right. Now is the reason because Tesla has worse tech, or because Tesla drivers self select, and are the worst people to give partial self driving to?

afavour 3y ago
I suspect Tesla simply has the latest number of vehicles on the market with this level of driving assist, therefore accidents almost always involve Teslas. To my mind the very name is a core problem. "Autopilot" clearly implies you're able to disengage from driving, no number of asterisks or warning dialogs is going to alter that core perception. But to change the name at this point would be to admit that they're at fault, something Musk would be loathe to do and probably something Tesla's lawyers would really rather not do, too.

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