3 ms·

That makes me wonder: is the nature of Facebook inherently distrusted, since they have so much data, and those who use it spend so much of their lives on it, or

by markbao 14y ago

That makes me wonder: is the nature of Facebook inherently distrusted, since they have so much data, and those who use it spend so much of their lives on it, or is the distrust based more on their privacy record? What if Facebook had a clean privacy record but still collected all of that data from us, in the name of providing the service (of messages, friends, social—your life on the internet, essentially)? Would they still be suspicious?

ryandvm 14y ago
It's creepy because of the business model. You don't pay them to use it, so they have to make money selling information about you. As long as Facebook is free, there's no way around this. The problem of course is that nobody is willing to pay for something like Facebook. It turns out that our privacy isn't worth squat.
- hackinthebochs 14y ago
  >so they have to make money selling information about you. What does this mean? Who have they sold information to? There is a big difference between selling ones information and using said information to better target ads. I was under the impression they do the latter, which seems perfectly legitimate to me.
  - joering2 14y ago
    by "sold information" he did not necessarily mean they offer it to anyone to buy on a free market: hey Joe, pay us $10 for 1,000 real-life users and their full info, likes, geos, photos, etc etc. But they took money (sold themselves?) to shady individuals like DST, where Milner worked with individuals such as the now jailed tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky. I would assume, if you put $200MM into company like Facebook, you have an admin-root access to their databases. With so much cheddar you willing to pump into it, I cannot imagine it to be otherwise. Who knows what they really did with all users information. edit: to make it more clear, I give you an example. Long time ago I have registered for Facebook with my developer email. I am limited with places I've given this email to. But now and then I see emails popping up in my spam mailbox that are extremely closely related to the output I've been given to FB wall, likes etc. Now, I have no proof whatsoever, but I dont see a "problem" why they wouldnt put $200MM into company and have access to all the email addresses organized by what people like, want and then just sell it to spammers (or actually, having your own spam cannon in the net).
  - ryandvm 14y ago
    I don't believe I'm stretching things to call it "selling information about you". Facebook takes money from advertisers and delivers you to them via highly targeted advertising. That is, by purchasing something through a Facebook ad, that seller now knows that you're an 81 year old female in Sarasota Springs in a "complicated" relationship that likes mountain biking. I'm not saying that this transaction is unethical, I just think it's creepy.
ge0rg 14y ago
Every large database is of interest to certain groups, be it law enforcement, secret services or criminals (or any combination thereof). Therefore, even with the cleanest privacy record, FB still can be forced to give away your information. This can only be prevented by using decentralized systems, which pose a smaller target to the above groups, or by quitting FB and forbidding all your friends to ever mention you there.
yuvadam 14y ago
The answer is a definitive yes. Facebook, on all accounts, is a business. A business is exists in order to make money, full stop. In today's world, user privacy, and ethical values do not exist in the economic formulas. Sure, it makes for great PR. But at the end of the quarter, those "values" would be crushed in an instance to maximize profit. Make no mistake, your interests and Facebook's are completely orthogonal. Facebook is not about "making the world more connected". I pity whoever believes that is true.
- dredmorbius 14y ago
  NB: there are for-profit companies who have a corporate charter to create a net social benefit. They're called benefit corporations: http://www.bcorporation.net/ http://www.bcorporation.net/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_corporation Non-profits also frequently serve this role. There's a bit of confounding of this given the rise in popularity of what's called "Cause Marketing". Socially beneficial activities undertaken by (generally) traditional for-profits. Often seen as a marketing benefit. Not bad of itself, but it's helpful to remind companies that token measures don't absolve other actions. It's fair to say that many traditional for-profits don't. Inclusive of social networking for-profits.
  - SpiderX 14y ago
    Facebook isn't one of them. They exist for the sole purpose of providing value to their shareholders. So, any way they can sell your data, they will.
- slurgfest 14y ago
  The problem with Facebook is not that it is a company. It IS with their privacy record. The problem IS corporate misbehavior, not the existence of capitalism.

by markbao 14y ago

ryandvm 14y ago

It's creepy because of the business model. You don't pay them to use it, so they have to make money selling information about you. As long as Facebook is free, there's no way around this. The problem of course is that nobody is willing to pay for something like Facebook. It turns out that our privacy isn't worth squat.

hackinthebochs 14y ago
>so they have to make money selling information about you. What does this mean? Who have they sold information to? There is a big difference between selling ones information and using said information to better target ads. I was under the impression they do the latter, which seems perfectly legitimate to me.
- joering2 14y ago
  by "sold information" he did not necessarily mean they offer it to anyone to buy on a free market: hey Joe, pay us $10 for 1,000 real-life users and their full info, likes, geos, photos, etc etc. But they took money (sold themselves?) to shady individuals like DST, where Milner worked with individuals such as the now jailed tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky. I would assume, if you put $200MM into company like Facebook, you have an admin-root access to their databases. With so much cheddar you willing to pump into it, I cannot imagine it to be otherwise. Who knows what they really did with all users information. edit: to make it more clear, I give you an example. Long time ago I have registered for Facebook with my developer email. I am limited with places I've given this email to. But now and then I see emails popping up in my spam mailbox that are extremely closely related to the output I've been given to FB wall, likes etc. Now, I have no proof whatsoever, but I dont see a "problem" why they wouldnt put $200MM into company and have access to all the email addresses organized by what people like, want and then just sell it to spammers (or actually, having your own spam cannon in the net).
- ryandvm 14y ago
  I don't believe I'm stretching things to call it "selling information about you". Facebook takes money from advertisers and delivers you to them via highly targeted advertising. That is, by purchasing something through a Facebook ad, that seller now knows that you're an 81 year old female in Sarasota Springs in a "complicated" relationship that likes mountain biking. I'm not saying that this transaction is unethical, I just think it's creepy.

ge0rg 14y ago

Every large database is of interest to certain groups, be it law enforcement, secret services or criminals (or any combination thereof). Therefore, even with the cleanest privacy record, FB still can be forced to give away your information. This can only be prevented by using decentralized systems, which pose a smaller target to the above groups, or by quitting FB and forbidding all your friends to ever mention you there.

yuvadam 14y ago

The answer is a definitive yes. Facebook, on all accounts, is a business. A business is exists in order to make money, full stop. In today's world, user privacy, and ethical values do not exist in the economic formulas. Sure, it makes for great PR. But at the end of the quarter, those "values" would be crushed in an instance to maximize profit. Make no mistake, your interests and Facebook's are completely orthogonal. Facebook is not about "making the world more connected". I pity whoever believes that is true.

dredmorbius 14y ago
NB: there are for-profit companies who have a corporate charter to create a net social benefit. They're called benefit corporations: http://www.bcorporation.net/ http://www.bcorporation.net/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_corporation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_corporation Non-profits also frequently serve this role. There's a bit of confounding of this given the rise in popularity of what's called "Cause Marketing". Socially beneficial activities undertaken by (generally) traditional for-profits. Often seen as a marketing benefit. Not bad of itself, but it's helpful to remind companies that token measures don't absolve other actions. It's fair to say that many traditional for-profits don't. Inclusive of social networking for-profits.
- SpiderX 14y ago
  Facebook isn't one of them. They exist for the sole purpose of providing value to their shareholders. So, any way they can sell your data, they will.
slurgfest 14y ago
The problem with Facebook is not that it is a company. It IS with their privacy record. The problem IS corporate misbehavior, not the existence of capitalism.