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It’s disconcerting that people who have no training on how to teach think they can do it well enough. Those same people generally seek out those with training

It’s disconcerting that people who have no training on how to teach think they can do it well enough. Those same people generally seek out those with training to do things in other areas of their life. But when it comes to teaching they think they know better. Asimov’s famous quote on ignorance comes to mind. EDIT: Do people generally use those without training to provide medical care, fix cars, cut hair, do electrical work, etc.? The answer is no. But when it comes to teaching science to k-12 students it’s ok to use someone with no training? It’s crazy.

ndriscoll 3y ago
All of those things you listed are totally normal for people to DIY. It's kind of bizarre to me that you think otherwise. It's like when Randy on South Park teaches his kids to call the handyman to fix the oven door. Or there's a handyman on youtube who's talked about being called and charging people like $500 to push the button on a GFCI outlet. It's hard to believe he's serious. He's also talked about being called by millennials to change smoke alarm batteries.
slothtrop 3y ago
If you consider what constitutes this training, you'll realize it doesn't matter, what matters is understanding the core topics and communicating well. Parents aren't teaching a class of 30 students, they can engage on a 1-1 level with their kids. > But when it comes to teaching science to k-12 students it’s ok to use someone with no training? That "someone" is you. Do you have any memory of gradeschool at all? Teaching is not complicated, it's just work.
- skhunted 3y ago
  How do you know this? What is the basis of your conclusion? I’ve taught mathematics for 30 years at the college level. I don’t know how a child should be taught an introduction to fractions. I could look it up and get the gist of it. But then I’d also have to look up how children learn and what cues to look for. How would I know if a kid needs special education? I could look that up too. At what rate should a person learn how to do arithmetic with fractions? I don’t know. I could look it up. But I’d have to do this with every subject. It’s not feasible. My sister has 8 kids and homeschooled all of them through grade 12. The first 3 went to college but the remaining ones did not. They didn’t learn as much as they should have an all of them have nutty beliefs. They all believe the Union started the Civil War and that slaves were generally treated well. There are enough knaves and fools. We don’t need to willfully create more of them. There’s a reason teaching requires training. It sounds to me like you’ve never really taught and don’t know what you are talking about.
  - VS1999 3y ago
    Can you be more specific than teaching math "at the college level"? In America, after 13 years of public education by professional teachers, they're lucky if they've even taken an introduction to calculus or trigonometry. Somehow I think I can do better than that.
    - skhunted 3y ago
      Somehow I think I can do better than that. Dunning-Kruger.
      - VS1999 3y ago
        Ad hominem. The system you're defending has set the bar so incredibly low that I just need to do "okay" and my children are infinitely more well off. Homeschooled kids consistently do far better than kids who attend public school, even by the standards and metrics public schools design. Your "average" is my failure state.
  - AlanYx 3y ago
    >I’ve taught mathematics for 30 years at the college level. I don’t know how a child should be taught an introduction to fractions. Some of the best K-12 math teaching initiatives right now are run by college-level math profs who've observed deficiencies in incoming students in freshman level courses and have started volunteering their time at the K-12 level to help. See e.g., Anna Stokke's Archimedes Math program or the Navajo Math Circles program. It's not necessary to have an actual academic background in math education; some of the worst program designs come from that cohort, e.g., Lilijedahl's Building Thinking Classrooms and Boaler's YouCubed.
    - skhunted 3y ago
      Some of the best k-12 math initiatives are being run by people with experience teaching math and with training in mathematics. From this you extrapolate that anyone can teach all subjects and levels in K-12? You conclude that no training is necessary to teach kids. Note that Archimedes program uses people with training in math. They don’t hire just anyone. Also worth noting: Acceptance into our program is at the discretion of the program supervisors. One program is successful (largely by selecting participants) and from this you conclude that home schooling is OK? Obviously you can find examples of people being a great teacher without training in teaching. This is not the basis of good public policy. We don’t conclude that medical degrees are unnecessary because there a few examples of someone “doctoring” well without one. If you think the average parent qualifies to teach all k-12 topics then you don’t understand how stupid the average person is.
VS1999 3y ago
I don't need a degree in babysitting to watch my own kids. That's all teaching is.
- skhunted 3y ago
  You clearly have never taught. Your statement is profoundly ignorant.
overrun11 3y ago
Did you go to college? If so you probably also learned from people with almost no training in teaching. Somehow every college professor in America teaches just fine without this supposedly crucial "training on how to teach." I also hope you aren't learning online from people like Grant Sanderson (3Blue1Brown), Salman Khan (Khan Academy) who also have no formal training. Side note: I can't name a single popular online teacher that keeps from a typical teaching background.
- skhunted 3y ago
  College teaching is different than teaching kids. Intellectual maturity comes into play at a certain point. Khan’s explanations and videos have a lot of flaws and are poorly done. At least the math ones that I’ve seen.
- lupire 3y ago
  Universities are famous for terrible teaching, so not a great examt.

ndriscoll 3y ago

All of those things you listed are totally normal for people to DIY. It's kind of bizarre to me that you think otherwise. It's like when Randy on South Park teaches his kids to call the handyman to fix the oven door. Or there's a handyman on youtube who's talked about being called and charging people like $500 to push the button on a GFCI outlet. It's hard to believe he's serious. He's also talked about being called by millennials to change smoke alarm batteries.

slothtrop 3y ago

If you consider what constitutes this training, you'll realize it doesn't matter, what matters is understanding the core topics and communicating well. Parents aren't teaching a class of 30 students, they can engage on a 1-1 level with their kids. > But when it comes to teaching science to k-12 students it’s ok to use someone with no training? That "someone" is you. Do you have any memory of gradeschool at all? Teaching is not complicated, it's just work.

skhunted 3y ago
How do you know this? What is the basis of your conclusion? I’ve taught mathematics for 30 years at the college level. I don’t know how a child should be taught an introduction to fractions. I could look it up and get the gist of it. But then I’d also have to look up how children learn and what cues to look for. How would I know if a kid needs special education? I could look that up too. At what rate should a person learn how to do arithmetic with fractions? I don’t know. I could look it up. But I’d have to do this with every subject. It’s not feasible. My sister has 8 kids and homeschooled all of them through grade 12. The first 3 went to college but the remaining ones did not. They didn’t learn as much as they should have an all of them have nutty beliefs. They all believe the Union started the Civil War and that slaves were generally treated well. There are enough knaves and fools. We don’t need to willfully create more of them. There’s a reason teaching requires training. It sounds to me like you’ve never really taught and don’t know what you are talking about.
- VS1999 3y ago
  Can you be more specific than teaching math "at the college level"? In America, after 13 years of public education by professional teachers, they're lucky if they've even taken an introduction to calculus or trigonometry. Somehow I think I can do better than that.
  - skhunted 3y ago
    Somehow I think I can do better than that. Dunning-Kruger.
    - VS1999 3y ago
      Ad hominem. The system you're defending has set the bar so incredibly low that I just need to do "okay" and my children are infinitely more well off. Homeschooled kids consistently do far better than kids who attend public school, even by the standards and metrics public schools design. Your "average" is my failure state.
- AlanYx 3y ago
  >I’ve taught mathematics for 30 years at the college level. I don’t know how a child should be taught an introduction to fractions. Some of the best K-12 math teaching initiatives right now are run by college-level math profs who've observed deficiencies in incoming students in freshman level courses and have started volunteering their time at the K-12 level to help. See e.g., Anna Stokke's Archimedes Math program or the Navajo Math Circles program. It's not necessary to have an actual academic background in math education; some of the worst program designs come from that cohort, e.g., Lilijedahl's Building Thinking Classrooms and Boaler's YouCubed.
  - skhunted 3y ago
    Some of the best k-12 math initiatives are being run by people with experience teaching math and with training in mathematics. From this you extrapolate that anyone can teach all subjects and levels in K-12? You conclude that no training is necessary to teach kids. Note that Archimedes program uses people with training in math. They don’t hire just anyone. Also worth noting: Acceptance into our program is at the discretion of the program supervisors. One program is successful (largely by selecting participants) and from this you conclude that home schooling is OK? Obviously you can find examples of people being a great teacher without training in teaching. This is not the basis of good public policy. We don’t conclude that medical degrees are unnecessary because there a few examples of someone “doctoring” well without one. If you think the average parent qualifies to teach all k-12 topics then you don’t understand how stupid the average person is.

VS1999 3y ago

I don't need a degree in babysitting to watch my own kids. That's all teaching is.

skhunted 3y ago
You clearly have never taught. Your statement is profoundly ignorant.

overrun11 3y ago

Did you go to college? If so you probably also learned from people with almost no training in teaching. Somehow every college professor in America teaches just fine without this supposedly crucial "training on how to teach." I also hope you aren't learning online from people like Grant Sanderson (3Blue1Brown), Salman Khan (Khan Academy) who also have no formal training. Side note: I can't name a single popular online teacher that keeps from a typical teaching background.

skhunted 3y ago
College teaching is different than teaching kids. Intellectual maturity comes into play at a certain point. Khan’s explanations and videos have a lot of flaws and are poorly done. At least the math ones that I’ve seen.
lupire 3y ago
Universities are famous for terrible teaching, so not a great examt.