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Parents want to tell teachers how to teach. Kids have no respect for teachers. Teachers are not paid nearly enough. Of course its going in the wrong direction.

by dkobia 2y ago

sickofparadox 2y ago
Teachers are often wrong about the best ways to teach. See the popularity of "whole language" learning over Phonics for a good example in teaching fads being detrimental to literacy across the board.
- vkou 2y ago
  And regionally, parents are wildly wrong about what to teach. Evolution, religion and its role in government, carbon dioxide, fundamentals of medicine, basic civics, recent history, how to navigate a world where gay people exist...
  - sickofparadox 2y ago
    That's an interesting assertation to make out of hand, but I don't think the data backs it up.[1][2] [1]https://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/Info-Brief-2015-2.pdf https://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/Info... [2]https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1005657.pdf https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1005657.pdf
    - vkou 2y ago
      That data doesn't actually counter-indicate what I'm saying, for a myriad reasons. I'll name one obvious one: Homeschool parents are, at minimum, present in their child's education. Compare their numbers to public school parents who are also present in theirs. Here's another obvious one: Most parents who are wildly deluded about those subjects don't homeschool, they just complain (and regionally, vote in representatives who will apply those delusions to the curriculum).
- bradfa 2y ago
  Teachers often have very little say in what they are required to teach or how they are required to go about teaching it. Often times the state or other administrators dictate what topics must be taught and how said topics must be taught. Deviating from the plan handed down to the teachers is quite frowned upon. Good teachers DO try to morph their style and presentation to suit the students' needs, but there's only so much they can do given their resources and other required tasks assigned by administrators. The kids still need to pass the state mandated tests on the state mandated topics in order for the teacher to get a good performance review from the administration.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
overrun11 2y ago
Individual teachers should definitely not be deciding curriculum as they are not experts in the fields they teach.
- deweller 2y ago
  Teachers should definitely have a say in what curriculum they teach. Teachers understand how their students learn and what their students will respond to. Sure the school system should have a say in the decision as well. But a full top-down approach of a mandated curriculum is a setup for disengaged students and demoralized teachers.
canjobear 2y ago
They aren't underpaid relative to other developed countries: https://data.oecd.org/teachers/teachers-salaries.htm https://data.oecd.org/teachers/teachers-salaries.htm
VS1999 2y ago
Teachers in the US are extremely well paid once you consider their obscenely good retirement benefits, insurance, and time off each year. Most teachers don't have to pay into social security because they get their own separate plan. It is extremely expensive to hire a teacher in America and I don't think spending even more money is going to change that. Even theoretically, what would paying them more accomplish? Would they be displaced by experts in the field who decide to retire? Would they work harder because they're over double the median per capita income in the US? Are we going to pay them the same amount but just hire more teachers?

Parents want to tell teachers how to teach. Kids have no respect for teachers. Teachers are not paid nearly enough. Of course its going in the wrong direction.

by dkobia 2y ago

Parents want to tell teachers how to teach. Kids have no respect for teachers. Teachers are not paid nearly enough. Of course its going in the wrong direction.

sickofparadox 2y ago

Teachers are often wrong about the best ways to teach. See the popularity of "whole language" learning over Phonics for a good example in teaching fads being detrimental to literacy across the board.

vkou 2y ago
And regionally, parents are wildly wrong about what to teach. Evolution, religion and its role in government, carbon dioxide, fundamentals of medicine, basic civics, recent history, how to navigate a world where gay people exist...
- sickofparadox 2y ago
  That's an interesting assertation to make out of hand, but I don't think the data backs it up.[1][2] [1]https://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/Info-Brief-2015-2.pdf https://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/Info... [2]https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1005657.pdf https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1005657.pdf
  - vkou 2y ago
    That data doesn't actually counter-indicate what I'm saying, for a myriad reasons. I'll name one obvious one: Homeschool parents are, at minimum, present in their child's education. Compare their numbers to public school parents who are also present in theirs. Here's another obvious one: Most parents who are wildly deluded about those subjects don't homeschool, they just complain (and regionally, vote in representatives who will apply those delusions to the curriculum).
bradfa 2y ago
Teachers often have very little say in what they are required to teach or how they are required to go about teaching it. Often times the state or other administrators dictate what topics must be taught and how said topics must be taught. Deviating from the plan handed down to the teachers is quite frowned upon. Good teachers DO try to morph their style and presentation to suit the students' needs, but there's only so much they can do given their resources and other required tasks assigned by administrators. The kids still need to pass the state mandated tests on the state mandated topics in order for the teacher to get a good performance review from the administration.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

overrun11 2y ago

Individual teachers should definitely not be deciding curriculum as they are not experts in the fields they teach.

deweller 2y ago
Teachers should definitely have a say in what curriculum they teach. Teachers understand how their students learn and what their students will respond to. Sure the school system should have a say in the decision as well. But a full top-down approach of a mandated curriculum is a setup for disengaged students and demoralized teachers.

canjobear 2y ago

They aren't underpaid relative to other developed countries: https://data.oecd.org/teachers/teachers-salaries.htm https://data.oecd.org/teachers/teachers-salaries.htm

VS1999 2y ago

Teachers in the US are extremely well paid once you consider their obscenely good retirement benefits, insurance, and time off each year. Most teachers don't have to pay into social security because they get their own separate plan. It is extremely expensive to hire a teacher in America and I don't think spending even more money is going to change that. Even theoretically, what would paying them more accomplish? Would they be displaced by experts in the field who decide to retire? Would they work harder because they're over double the median per capita income in the US? Are we going to pay them the same amount but just hire more teachers?