7 ms·

I would like to know if the people citing, "Teachers bringing their personal political and social views into the classroom (54%)", as the reason why K-12 Educat

by grej 2y ago

I would like to know if the people citing, "Teachers bringing their personal political and social views into the classroom (54%)", as the reason why K-12 Education is going the wrong direction actually have any experience with this or know any examples, or are they just parroting the points of political leaders that are doing the bidding of donors trying to drive school vouchers?

dfxm12 2y ago
FWIW, the poll is among adults, not adults with children. I'm willing to bet most respondents don't have kids currently in public K-12 schools or don't have experience with this.
kayodelycaon 2y ago
It's real and I wish it wasn't. :/ Two things I've personally heard discussed. 1. Teaching "evolution" instead of "creationism" 2. "Oppressing" white students with "diversity". I've personally experienced the second in the 1990s. A few teachers and professors are really into social justice and take it way too far. No matter how much I agree with them, I can not support berating and shaming white students in front of an entire class as if they were personally responsible for actions that occurred over century before their ancestors even reached the US. (My ancestors did not come from imperialist nations that murdered entire native tribes, thank you very much.) For people who are already primed to think the worst of the entire education system, my experience is all the proof they need that the entire system is out to destroy them.
ericmcer 2y ago
A huge part is probably right wing personalities talking about "wokeness" in our schools. Personally, I do shake my head at some of the stuff my kid talks about. For instance, they were taught that the WW2 era American internment camps should be called American concentration camps. That said I care very little about the social aspects of education unless they are taking away from math, science and making kids who are competent at independent thinking and problem solving.
- dantheman 2y ago
  They were concentration camps - that's the definition. Perhaps your conflating death camps with concentration camps.
  - tivert 2y ago
    > Perhaps your conflating death camps with concentration camps. I would wager most Americans would not even be aware of that distinction. In popular discussion, they're the same thing. So if school kids are being taught "the WW2 era American internment camps should be called American concentration camps," they're actually being mislead. The lesson can't be oblivious to popular understandings or less precise popular usage. It's also worth noting that strategic obliviousness to the difference between popular and technical definitions is a time-tested and effective way to lie and mislead, because it lends itself to a fallacious but effective motte and bailey defense, which also exploits embarrassment over not wanting to seem ignorant and prejudice against people who appear ignorant to silence challenges.
    - JAlexoid 2y ago
      Calling them internment camps is as misleading as equating them to Nazi death camps.
      - tivert 2y ago
        > Calling them internment camps is as misleading as equating them to Nazi death camps. No, because people know what the term "internment camps" means in this context. At least in the American colloquial context, "concentration camps" and "internment camps" are more names for specific historical instances not types.
        JAlexoid 2y ago
        > No, because people know what the term "internment camps" means in this context. I disagree, because the topic is very intentionally glossed over. Most people couldn't tell you what internment means and will not associate it with anything bad.
VS1999 2y ago
This has nothing to do with "the bidding of donors trying to drive school vouchers" or whatever conspiracy that is. We just don't want teachers pushing their political views on children.
overrun11 2y ago
Not allowing people to criticize things without direct personal experience is a bizarrely high standard. I wonder if you hold others to this same standard on issues you agree with?
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
skyde 2y ago
As a parent myself I see this happening daily. Teacher public shaming my kids for having pretzel in his lunch saying it’s not healthy. Then later the same day the school give all the kids crackers as snack :-) Or teachers spending 2 hours telling kids which brand of soap or shampoo they should buy and which brand they should avoid. Or teacher giving a 1 hour talk saying they should open a checking accounts at a particular credit union. For some reason new teacher are not afraid to brainwash kids with their own personal agenda.
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
Yes lots of experience with this. I think it depends on where you live. Highly progressive cities and states in the US tend to have staff and administration that are openly pushing their politics in schools. That can show up in terms of curriculum (like requiring ethnic studies and displacing other content), bans on gifted education for DEI reasons, or the more directly political / controversial issues showing up in classrooms and assignments (topics like Trump or gender identity or BLM or whatever).

by grej 2y ago

dfxm12 2y ago

FWIW, the poll is among adults, not adults with children. I'm willing to bet most respondents don't have kids currently in public K-12 schools or don't have experience with this.

kayodelycaon 2y ago

It's real and I wish it wasn't. :/ Two things I've personally heard discussed. 1. Teaching "evolution" instead of "creationism" 2. "Oppressing" white students with "diversity". I've personally experienced the second in the 1990s. A few teachers and professors are really into social justice and take it way too far. No matter how much I agree with them, I can not support berating and shaming white students in front of an entire class as if they were personally responsible for actions that occurred over century before their ancestors even reached the US. (My ancestors did not come from imperialist nations that murdered entire native tribes, thank you very much.) For people who are already primed to think the worst of the entire education system, my experience is all the proof they need that the entire system is out to destroy them.

ericmcer 2y ago

A huge part is probably right wing personalities talking about "wokeness" in our schools. Personally, I do shake my head at some of the stuff my kid talks about. For instance, they were taught that the WW2 era American internment camps should be called American concentration camps. That said I care very little about the social aspects of education unless they are taking away from math, science and making kids who are competent at independent thinking and problem solving.

dantheman 2y ago
They were concentration camps - that's the definition. Perhaps your conflating death camps with concentration camps.
- tivert 2y ago
  > Perhaps your conflating death camps with concentration camps. I would wager most Americans would not even be aware of that distinction. In popular discussion, they're the same thing. So if school kids are being taught "the WW2 era American internment camps should be called American concentration camps," they're actually being mislead. The lesson can't be oblivious to popular understandings or less precise popular usage. It's also worth noting that strategic obliviousness to the difference between popular and technical definitions is a time-tested and effective way to lie and mislead, because it lends itself to a fallacious but effective motte and bailey defense, which also exploits embarrassment over not wanting to seem ignorant and prejudice against people who appear ignorant to silence challenges.
  - JAlexoid 2y ago
    Calling them internment camps is as misleading as equating them to Nazi death camps.
    - tivert 2y ago
      > Calling them internment camps is as misleading as equating them to Nazi death camps. No, because people know what the term "internment camps" means in this context. At least in the American colloquial context, "concentration camps" and "internment camps" are more names for specific historical instances not types.
      - JAlexoid 2y ago
        > No, because people know what the term "internment camps" means in this context. I disagree, because the topic is very intentionally glossed over. Most people couldn't tell you what internment means and will not associate it with anything bad.

VS1999 2y ago

This has nothing to do with "the bidding of donors trying to drive school vouchers" or whatever conspiracy that is. We just don't want teachers pushing their political views on children.

overrun11 2y ago

Not allowing people to criticize things without direct personal experience is a bizarrely high standard. I wonder if you hold others to this same standard on issues you agree with?

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

skyde 2y ago

As a parent myself I see this happening daily. Teacher public shaming my kids for having pretzel in his lunch saying it’s not healthy. Then later the same day the school give all the kids crackers as snack :-) Or teachers spending 2 hours telling kids which brand of soap or shampoo they should buy and which brand they should avoid. Or teacher giving a 1 hour talk saying they should open a checking accounts at a particular credit union. For some reason new teacher are not afraid to brainwash kids with their own personal agenda.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

Yes lots of experience with this. I think it depends on where you live. Highly progressive cities and states in the US tend to have staff and administration that are openly pushing their politics in schools. That can show up in terms of curriculum (like requiring ethnic studies and displacing other content), bans on gifted education for DEI reasons, or the more directly political / controversial issues showing up in classrooms and assignments (topics like Trump or gender identity or BLM or whatever).