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But don’t you think worse work ethic will prevent the US from ever catching up in the semiconductor industry?

Dalewyn 3y ago
I do, and in fairness I just edited that part in as you made your comment since I realized I neglected to mention it. Americans can dominate in anything they feel motivated to, the problem is getting motivated.
trashtester 3y ago
The US has a pretty good work ethic. It's mostly different from East Asia. It's not like Korean, Japanese or Chinese tech companies are THAT much more productive than US ones. If anything, lower salaries in Asian countries indicates that their productivity is lower than in the US. People in the US work relatively long hours compared to, say, Europe. They're also some of the most creative and agile out there. I suspect that part of the reason TSMC is having such extreme success right now, is that they're by far the most successful company in Taiwan. When they're looking for people, it's like OpenAI looks for people in the US, they can get almost anyone.
- osnium123 3y ago
  Put another way, TSMC gets the cream of the crop in Taiwan while US based fabs get 2nd/3rd tier talent who couldn’t get work in other sectors. I can see that.
  - analognoise 3y ago
    This is brilliant, thank you. I hadn't considered it from that angle.
- ativzzz 3y ago
  I think Tesla/SpaceX are similar comparisons. They're known for a tough work schedule but people go there anyway because of the nature of the work. I imagine TSMC is similar in Taiwan.
- arethuza 3y ago
  I've never really equated "hours worked" with "work ethic" - if anything I would say that of all the nationalities I have worked with the people who seemed to have the best work ethic in the sense of turning up, focusing on work and going home again were actually German and they have the some of the lowest annual hours worked. Being expected to come into the office and sit there just because its expected of you seems the opposite of "work ethic" to me....
  - trashtester 3y ago
    I agree, this was kind of my point. Work ethic can mean somewhat different things to different people. Some emphasize hours worked, some effort, some obedience, some loyalty and other honesty, bravery or creativity. Some of these can even be contradictory. Some workplaces reward the bravery to provide constructive, honest criticism to coworkers and especially senior management. In other places, such behavior can be seen as disloyal. But there are also cultures that actively repress people who seem overly eager to give their best. I personally know of places where the union has been going after young people who work at their full capacity as it makes the older workers look bad. In other places, I've seen laziness being seen as completely acceptable. And particularly in groups that feel underpaid, either relative to management or to coworkers in other countries with higher salaries. ("We pretend to work, they pretend to pay us").
Workaccount2 3y ago
A lot of asian work ethic is centered on appearances more than raw productivity. There is a big difference between being at work for 12 hours and doing work for 12 hours. There is tons of stupid appearances fluff going on. They're not super humans.

I do, and in fairness I just edited that part in as you made your comment since I realized I neglected to mention it. Americans can dominate in anything they feel motivated to, the problem is getting motivated.

trashtester 3y ago

The US has a pretty good work ethic. It's mostly different from East Asia. It's not like Korean, Japanese or Chinese tech companies are THAT much more productive than US ones. If anything, lower salaries in Asian countries indicates that their productivity is lower than in the US. People in the US work relatively long hours compared to, say, Europe. They're also some of the most creative and agile out there. I suspect that part of the reason TSMC is having such extreme success right now, is that they're by far the most successful company in Taiwan. When they're looking for people, it's like OpenAI looks for people in the US, they can get almost anyone.

osnium123 3y ago
Put another way, TSMC gets the cream of the crop in Taiwan while US based fabs get 2nd/3rd tier talent who couldn’t get work in other sectors. I can see that.
- analognoise 3y ago
  This is brilliant, thank you. I hadn't considered it from that angle.
ativzzz 3y ago
I think Tesla/SpaceX are similar comparisons. They're known for a tough work schedule but people go there anyway because of the nature of the work. I imagine TSMC is similar in Taiwan.
arethuza 3y ago
I've never really equated "hours worked" with "work ethic" - if anything I would say that of all the nationalities I have worked with the people who seemed to have the best work ethic in the sense of turning up, focusing on work and going home again were actually German and they have the some of the lowest annual hours worked. Being expected to come into the office and sit there just because its expected of you seems the opposite of "work ethic" to me....
- trashtester 3y ago
  I agree, this was kind of my point. Work ethic can mean somewhat different things to different people. Some emphasize hours worked, some effort, some obedience, some loyalty and other honesty, bravery or creativity. Some of these can even be contradictory. Some workplaces reward the bravery to provide constructive, honest criticism to coworkers and especially senior management. In other places, such behavior can be seen as disloyal. But there are also cultures that actively repress people who seem overly eager to give their best. I personally know of places where the union has been going after young people who work at their full capacity as it makes the older workers look bad. In other places, I've seen laziness being seen as completely acceptable. And particularly in groups that feel underpaid, either relative to management or to coworkers in other countries with higher salaries. ("We pretend to work, they pretend to pay us").

Workaccount2 3y ago

A lot of asian work ethic is centered on appearances more than raw productivity. There is a big difference between being at work for 12 hours and doing work for 12 hours. There is tons of stupid appearances fluff going on. They're not super humans.