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I think GP was kind of referring to the (IMHO) slightly awkward way the article presents the concept of "Mandate of Heaven". I think your interpretation is muc

by hnfong 3y ago

I think GP was kind of referring to the (IMHO) slightly awkward way the article presents the concept of "Mandate of Heaven". I think your interpretation is much closer to the truth.

hnfong 3y ago
I considered writing a top-level comment, but a reply here to expand on my assertion is probably more appropriate -- To state the obvious, in general it's a bad idea to directly contradict your "boss", especially so if he is the Emperor and can sentence you to death if he's displeased. That said, the aggravating factor in Sima Qian's case was that, the campaigns against the Xiongnu was kind of the Emperor's "personal" project, which was generally conducted outside of the government's bureaucratic system. For example, the Emperor appointed various relatives of his wife (i.e. the Empress) into high positions within the military campaigns, and he was personally involved in all sorts of strategic planning. I think this could mean the Emperor was personally involved in the chain of decisions that got Li Ling a bad situation with the Xiongnu. So then, imagine you have a choice between saying it was the general's fault for losing tens of thousands of soldiers, or it was the Emperor's personal fault. I mean, you don't really need to understand the complicated philosophy of "Mandate of Heaven" to realize there's only one answer that doesn't risk your life. Even among Emperors in Chinese history, the Emperor Wudi was actually quite notorious for being rather ruthless. In the end even his son the crown prince feared him enough that the son hastily staged a rebellion when the son perceived his political enemies were going to smear him in front of Wudi. In the aftermath, the Wudi killed his son and his wife for the rebellion, appointed another son as successor, and then killed the successor's mother (because, he said, he didn't want to risk the mother's relatives taking power). Pretty brutal stuff. So IMHO it wasn't so much the "Mandate of Heaven" that got Sima Qian in trouble, but rather it's the old adage of "don't contradict your boss" (especially if he has a license to kill), and the fact that Wudi was more ruthless than the average Emperor by a fair bit. Of course in the Anglo-sphere it's more eye catching to link historical events to exotic concepts like "Mandate of Heaven"... but reality is sometimes a bit more boring than they'd like you to believe.

by hnfong 3y ago

I think GP was kind of referring to the (IMHO) slightly awkward way the article presents the concept of "Mandate of Heaven". I think your interpretation is much closer to the truth.

hnfong 3y ago

I considered writing a top-level comment, but a reply here to expand on my assertion is probably more appropriate -- To state the obvious, in general it's a bad idea to directly contradict your "boss", especially so if he is the Emperor and can sentence you to death if he's displeased. That said, the aggravating factor in Sima Qian's case was that, the campaigns against the Xiongnu was kind of the Emperor's "personal" project, which was generally conducted outside of the government's bureaucratic system. For example, the Emperor appointed various relatives of his wife (i.e. the Empress) into high positions within the military campaigns, and he was personally involved in all sorts of strategic planning. I think this could mean the Emperor was personally involved in the chain of decisions that got Li Ling a bad situation with the Xiongnu. So then, imagine you have a choice between saying it was the general's fault for losing tens of thousands of soldiers, or it was the Emperor's personal fault. I mean, you don't really need to understand the complicated philosophy of "Mandate of Heaven" to realize there's only one answer that doesn't risk your life. Even among Emperors in Chinese history, the Emperor Wudi was actually quite notorious for being rather ruthless. In the end even his son the crown prince feared him enough that the son hastily staged a rebellion when the son perceived his political enemies were going to smear him in front of Wudi. In the aftermath, the Wudi killed his son and his wife for the rebellion, appointed another son as successor, and then killed the successor's mother (because, he said, he didn't want to risk the mother's relatives taking power). Pretty brutal stuff. So IMHO it wasn't so much the "Mandate of Heaven" that got Sima Qian in trouble, but rather it's the old adage of "don't contradict your boss" (especially if he has a license to kill), and the fact that Wudi was more ruthless than the average Emperor by a fair bit. Of course in the Anglo-sphere it's more eye catching to link historical events to exotic concepts like "Mandate of Heaven"... but reality is sometimes a bit more boring than they'd like you to believe.