4 ms·

> Well a library is a place where a population can spend the day getting smarter while not spending money. If you're rich, powerful and an unethical asshole tho

> Well a library is a place where a population can spend the day getting smarter while not spending money. If you're rich, powerful and an unethical asshole those are two things you definitely do not want. This is conspiracy level thinking. Nobody wealthy is sitting around scheming how to keep the proles dumb and subdued. The assault on public institutions like libraries comes from 2 places: 1) Stop wasting my tax dollars on stuff I don't use or care about. Or 2) I bet there is an untapped commercial market that can be built, and people will love my solution more than public libraries.

teitoklien 2y ago
> Nobody wealthy is sitting around scheming how to keep the proles dumb and subdued. They dont sit around scheming, they work, walk around doing it in action. Company executives keep adding ingredients to processed food to make them addictive knowing it’ll hurt health outcomes and lead to more death. Company executives continue to sell medicine that they sell for $20 or $10 in Europe or India, but charge americans $5000 or higher for the same medicine in the same package. They shut down any research paper that outs them, by suppressing the findings, like Facebook or Junk food companies do whenever a research is conducted on their products. We should celebrate our pioneers and innovators, but we shouldn’t ignore it blindly when MBA execs and Beancounters actively sabotage and hurt their own customers and the masses. Businesses are awesome, but it shouldnt be used to give a no questions asked green flag to anyone who runs businesses. There are people actively lobbying for policies that lead to more american deaths, bankruptcies, families breaking into shambles, and the government watching from the sidelines and even sometimes helping to make it all happen. Yes, there are people who do want to subdue the masses and keep them dumb, just as long as it helps them buy 1 more yacht or few more 0s in their bank balance. I say it as a free market capitalist who is ardently anti-communist.
loup-vaillant 2y ago
> > [Rich & powerful assholes often maintain their status by unethical means.] > This is conspiracy level thinking. The prevalence of assholes is a documented thing (latest numbers I've heard was over 6% of clinical narcissists, reportedly a very conservative lower bound), and who would ever be surprised that high-status people like being high-status? I don't know about libraries specifically, but the idea that rich assholes would like to keep the education level of the general population below a threatening threshold is not conspiracy thinking to me, it's just obvious. I am of course not denying the existence of nice rich people. Though I'm afraid they tend to be selected out of ludicrous wealth. In fact, I fully expect to find many more assholes among super-rich people than I would among the general population. (But I'm not sure either: the strife we find among some of the poorest people also tend to generate assholes…)
- bumby 2y ago
  The irony is that one of the largest contributions to the public library system was one of the richest guys ever. Carnegie funded over 2500.
  - loup-vaillant 2y ago
    You do realise you're not contradicting anything I've just said, right? Quoting myself, "I am of course not denying the existence of nice rich people".
    - bumby 2y ago
      But then you go on to say, >Though I'm afraid they tend to be selected out of ludicrous wealth. The irony is that one of the most ludicrously wealthy people in history was also probably the single largest contributor to public libraries. Whether or not he was simply an outlier, I think that’s an important thing to point out. Further, some data suggests that as much as 5% of the general population are narcissists. So collectively, your point seems to be that rich people are pretty much like the rest of us, just with more money.
      - loup-vaillant 2y ago
        > But then you go on to say, I said "tend to". A tendency does not make an absolute and complete genocide. I also said "I'm afraid", which is supposed to convey some level of uncertainty. Carnegie's donation doesn't invalidate my point, even if he wasn't an outlier. > The irony is that one of the most ludicrously wealthy people in history was also probably the single largest contributor to public libraries. Where you see irony, I see expected statistics: the largest contributor to pretty much anything has to be ludicrously rich. Because the only way to give that much, is to own even more. And I will add that one incentive for rich people to donate is their public image. And in many cases their "donations" are largely neutered by tax cuts or by increasing the return on some of their other investments (basically their donations causing other of their investments to increase their returns). Donations by rich people aren't always genuinely generous.
stetrain 2y ago
> This is conspiracy level thinking. Nobody wealthy is sitting around scheming how to keep the proles dumb and subdued. Of course not. They're scheming about how to monetize education, knowledge, and research. > 1) Stop wasting my tax dollars on stuff I don't use or care about. Or 2) I bet there is an untapped commercial market that can be built, and people will love my solution more than public libraries. (2) Gets a lot easier if you first advocate for (1) to make the public libraries worse.
ogurechny 2y ago
> Nobody wealthy is sitting around scheming how to keep the proles dumb and subdued. There are corporate divisions doing A/B tests, etc. to find out what works for the lowest common denominator, and how to profit more from someone's ignorance. Many people here are directly involved in making it happen.

teitoklien 2y ago

> Nobody wealthy is sitting around scheming how to keep the proles dumb and subdued. They dont sit around scheming, they work, walk around doing it in action. Company executives keep adding ingredients to processed food to make them addictive knowing it’ll hurt health outcomes and lead to more death. Company executives continue to sell medicine that they sell for $20 or $10 in Europe or India, but charge americans $5000 or higher for the same medicine in the same package. They shut down any research paper that outs them, by suppressing the findings, like Facebook or Junk food companies do whenever a research is conducted on their products. We should celebrate our pioneers and innovators, but we shouldn’t ignore it blindly when MBA execs and Beancounters actively sabotage and hurt their own customers and the masses. Businesses are awesome, but it shouldnt be used to give a no questions asked green flag to anyone who runs businesses. There are people actively lobbying for policies that lead to more american deaths, bankruptcies, families breaking into shambles, and the government watching from the sidelines and even sometimes helping to make it all happen. Yes, there are people who do want to subdue the masses and keep them dumb, just as long as it helps them buy 1 more yacht or few more 0s in their bank balance. I say it as a free market capitalist who is ardently anti-communist.

loup-vaillant 2y ago

> > [Rich & powerful assholes often maintain their status by unethical means.] > This is conspiracy level thinking. The prevalence of assholes is a documented thing (latest numbers I've heard was over 6% of clinical narcissists, reportedly a very conservative lower bound), and who would ever be surprised that high-status people like being high-status? I don't know about libraries specifically, but the idea that rich assholes would like to keep the education level of the general population below a threatening threshold is not conspiracy thinking to me, it's just obvious. I am of course not denying the existence of nice rich people. Though I'm afraid they tend to be selected out of ludicrous wealth. In fact, I fully expect to find many more assholes among super-rich people than I would among the general population. (But I'm not sure either: the strife we find among some of the poorest people also tend to generate assholes…)

bumby 2y ago
The irony is that one of the largest contributions to the public library system was one of the richest guys ever. Carnegie funded over 2500.
- loup-vaillant 2y ago
  You do realise you're not contradicting anything I've just said, right? Quoting myself, "I am of course not denying the existence of nice rich people".
  - bumby 2y ago
    But then you go on to say, >Though I'm afraid they tend to be selected out of ludicrous wealth. The irony is that one of the most ludicrously wealthy people in history was also probably the single largest contributor to public libraries. Whether or not he was simply an outlier, I think that’s an important thing to point out. Further, some data suggests that as much as 5% of the general population are narcissists. So collectively, your point seems to be that rich people are pretty much like the rest of us, just with more money.
    - loup-vaillant 2y ago
      > But then you go on to say, I said "tend to". A tendency does not make an absolute and complete genocide. I also said "I'm afraid", which is supposed to convey some level of uncertainty. Carnegie's donation doesn't invalidate my point, even if he wasn't an outlier. > The irony is that one of the most ludicrously wealthy people in history was also probably the single largest contributor to public libraries. Where you see irony, I see expected statistics: the largest contributor to pretty much anything has to be ludicrously rich. Because the only way to give that much, is to own even more. And I will add that one incentive for rich people to donate is their public image. And in many cases their "donations" are largely neutered by tax cuts or by increasing the return on some of their other investments (basically their donations causing other of their investments to increase their returns). Donations by rich people aren't always genuinely generous.

stetrain 2y ago

> This is conspiracy level thinking. Nobody wealthy is sitting around scheming how to keep the proles dumb and subdued. Of course not. They're scheming about how to monetize education, knowledge, and research. > 1) Stop wasting my tax dollars on stuff I don't use or care about. Or 2) I bet there is an untapped commercial market that can be built, and people will love my solution more than public libraries. (2) Gets a lot easier if you first advocate for (1) to make the public libraries worse.

ogurechny 2y ago

> Nobody wealthy is sitting around scheming how to keep the proles dumb and subdued. There are corporate divisions doing A/B tests, etc. to find out what works for the lowest common denominator, and how to profit more from someone's ignorance. Many people here are directly involved in making it happen.